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Author Topic: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi"  (Read 72015 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Well, from the perspective of the saints, the world is always in a state of corruption ... as there's always been sin in the world.  Relatively speaking, however, from our perspective, the 14th / 15th centuries may well have been heaven on earth.

Offline AnthonyPadua

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Well, from the perspective of the saints, the world is always in a state of corruption ... as there's always been sin in the world.  Relatively speaking, however, from our perspective, the 14th / 15th centuries may well have been heaven on earth.
Indeed, though it seems even the religious were corrupt. God also complains in other chapters about the state of the clergy. . Yeah compared to the near complete satanic inversion today even those 'bad times' seem 'heavenly'.

From book 4.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200105191849/http://www.dailycatholic.org/4bri3537.htm
Quote
God continued in revealing to the bride the following: "Hear now what My enemies do as opposed to what My friends once did. My friends used to enter monasteries out of wise fear and divine charity. But those who are now in the monasteries go off into the world out of pride and cupidity, following their selfish will and living for the pleasures of their body. The judgment for those who die with such a disposition is that they shall neither experience nor obtain heavenly joy but only endless punishment in hell.

"Know, too, that those who live in a cloister but are forced by divine charity and against their own will to become superiors shall not be counted in that number. Knights, moreover, who used to bear arms, were prepared to give their lives for justice and to shed their blood for the sake of the holy faith by helping the needy to obtain justice and by restraining evildoers and keeping them humble.

"Yet, now hear how far they have turned away. Nowadays they prefer to die in war for the sake of pride and cupidity and envy, on the promptings of the devil, rather than to live according to My commands in order to obtain everlasting joy. Therefore, the wages of a just condemnation shall be given to all those who die with such a disposition. This means that devils will be given to their souls to be eternally joined with them as their wages. However, those who do serve Me are to receive their soldier's wages together with the heavenly army forever without end."

The Son then speaks: "Daughter, how stands the world now?"

She answers: "Like an open sack to which everyone runs, like a man running without caring what he is following."

The Lord answers: "Therefore, I am right to go with my plow over the earth, plowing over Gentiles and Christians, sparing neither old nor young, neither poor nor rich. Each shall be judged according to his or her own righteousness, and each shall die in his or her own sin, and their homes shall be left without inhabitants. However, I shall not do this until the consummation."

She replied: "O Lord, do not get angry if I speak. Send some of your friends to warn and admonish them about their danger!"

And the Lord said: "It is written that when the rich man despaired of his own salvation in hell, he asked that someone might be sent to warn his brothers so that they would not perish in the same way. The answer to him was: 'That shall in no way be done, for they have Moses and the prophets to teach them.' So I tell you now: They have the Gospels and the sayings of the prophets, they have the words and examples of the holy doctors, they have reason and intelligence.

"Let them make use of these things, and they will be saved. If I send you, you would not be able to cry out loud enough to be heard. If I send My friends, there are but few of them, and if they cry out, they will scarcely be heard. However, I will send My friends to those I choose, and they shall prepare the way for God."
Just to keep the thread on topic I have bolded the sentence with the term 'consummation'.

Those last three paragraphs though....


Offline DecemRationis

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Indeed, though it seems even the religious were corrupt. God also complains in other chapters about the state of the clergy. . Yeah compared to the near complete satanic inversion today even those 'bad times' seem 'heavenly'.

From book 4.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200105191849/http://www.dailycatholic.org/4bri3537.htmJust to keep the thread on topic I have bolded the sentence with the term 'consummation'.

Those last three paragraphs though....

Interesting addition to the thread. Thanks.

To those who do not click the link provided, it is from a revelation to St. Bridget. 

Offline gladius_veritatis

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The consummation of something is the end of it.

I have only just begun perusing this thread and admit this is a kind of cherry picking, but...

When we say a marriage has been consummated, do we mean it has ended?  No, we do not.

Offline Mark 79

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Opinion, treat it as such.

I translate "usque ad consummationem saeculi" as "until the consummation of the age (singular!)" or even more literally "of the century." In the singular, the obvious question is "the consummation of which age?," "which century?"

For this reason it seems that saeculorum should be inferred, hence "usque ad consummationem saeculi [saeculorum]" and therefore "until the consummation of the age of the ages," implying The Last Day.  To interpret otherwise defies the promise that the Gates of Hell shall not prevail.

I invite theologically competent comment on my opinion.

As for consummatio, here is the Liddel-Short entry:

consummātĭo , ōnis, f. id. (postAug.).
I. A casting up or reckoning together, a summing up, a summary view.
A. Prop.: “operarum,Col. 12, 13, 7: “ambitus Europae,Plin. 4, 23, 37, § 121: “singulorum mancipiorum,Dig. 21, 1, 36.—
B. Transf.
1. A union, accuмulation: “ita non haec (poma) sed consummatio omnium nocet,not fruit of itself, but the use of it in addition to all other food, Cels. 1, 3, 83.—
2. In rhet. t. t., a comprehending, connecting together: “cuм plura argumenta ad unum effectum deducuntur,Quint. 9, 2, 103.—
II. A finishing, completing, accomplishing, consummation: “susceptae professionis,Col. 9, 2, 2: “habet res minime consummationem,id. 1, prooem. § 7:“ maximarum rerum,Sen. Brev. Vit. 1, 3: “operis,Quint. 2, 18, 2; 6, 1, 55: “liberalitatis,Plin. Ep. 5, 12, 1; Vulg. Jer. 30, 11 (for the Heb. ) et saep.: “alvi,” i. e. a digestion of food, Plin. 26, 8, 28, § 43: “gladiatorum,” i. e. the main proof of their skill, id. 8, 7, 7, § 22: PRIMI PILI, i. e. the completed time of service as primipilus, Inscr. Orell. 3453.


A Latin Dictionary. Founded on Andrews' edition of Freund's Latin dictionary. revised, enlarged, and in great part rewritten by. Charlton T. Lewis, Ph.D. and. Charles Short, LL.D. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1879.
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0059:entry=consummatio&highlight=consummatio