Has anyone authoritatively declared that there have been doctrinal changes in recent decades?  If not, upon what "solid basis" or authority are you, theological nobody that you are, making such an audacious claim? 

You have responsibility for your soul, so do whatever you think right.

But if your traditionalism depends on and requires as a sine qua non that the new Roman rites are invalid, I think that's a weak basis.

Again, upon what basis/authority do you claim there have been any meaningful/substantial changes at all?

I don't require you to follow my views, so it's irrelevant.

I don't require you to follow my views, so it's irrelevant.

It IS relevant because it is clear that you are guilty of the very thing you are saying about others.  Rest assured, I have NO intention of "following" or even worrying about your views.  I just want you to realize that you are the pot calling the kettle black.

According to your own reasoning, you have NO "authority" to take the position you do, yet you take it.  Why?

What position do I take that I have no authority to take?

You stated that there have been doctrinal changes in recent decades.  Says who?

Are you a Trad of ANY stripe?  Then you are using reason illumined by Faith as your guide, not any sort of recent authoritative decision.

Are you really so dense, or do you just pretend for kicks?

You stated that there have been doctrinal changes in recent decades.  Says who?

If you don't think there have been doctrinal changes in recent decades, fine. If you do, fine. I would be willing to argue the substance, but in the end, your decision is your decision. But if you tried to say anyone who disagreed with you was in sin, that's something else, no?

My discussion with Pax has spread out a bit, but my main point was: if I don't trust the superiors to do the right thing on holy orders, then I wouldn't be there. If the priests can't be trusted, why go? For the sacraments, but otherwise ignore them? So the priests are sacrament vending machines who can't even be trusted with the sacraments?

And this should apply elsewhere. The SSPX has been the context because it's is a common venue for conditional ordinations.


"By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another." (Jn 13:35)

The faithful have a right to know that priests are really priests.  They have a right to know if a conditional ordination was done, and why, and by whom.

The first sentence is one thing. The superior asserts that by incardinating or assigning them.

The second is saying something more. Is that true?

If a marriage is found to be doubtful or invalid and then rectified (which is usually in private), other people do not need to be informed. Obviously, some people know, but not everyone. I don't think that makes the church a secret society.

Being an exorcist is limited to the clergy.  But driving out devils is not necessarily limited to the clergy.  So success in driving out devils is not a guarantee of valid orders.  In fact the minor order of exorcist, while limited only to the clergy, comes before ordination to the priesthood.  So it could never be a guarantee of the validity of a later ordination to a major order.

I was wondering about this because John mentions to Christ those that drive out demons that "do not accompany us".

This.

Marriages are recorded by the State, as well as your local Parish (or your Trad chapel post-1970) -- who is NOT obliged in any way to keep that fact a secret to any inquirer.

Actually, when I was married, Fr. Timothy Pfeiffer duly sent notification to our local parishes, because they have jurisdiction.

Marriage is a public act, and a priest is a public man. His ordination, and the details thereof, are open to anyone the least bit curious -- whether he has a good reason to know or not.

Matthew, I totally agree with you on the fact marriage is a public act, and a priest is a public man. His ordination, and the details thereof, are open to anyone the least bit curious -- whether he has a good reason to know or not. Sadly so many traditionalist clergy today, hide/withhold information on their holy orders.