Author Topic: Una cuм Question: An AI Bug, or Catholic Teaching? (Read 58461 times)

SkidRowCatholic · « **Reply #45 on:** November 21, 2025, 03:36:10 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn on November 21, 2025, 03:28:49 PM

Quit relying on that AI

It is just a tool like the computer/phone and search engines you are using right now.
If we don't like the answer(s) the problem must be the machinery right?

Don't beat around the bush.

Name the teachings which you call "crap" line for line.
Show using pre-Vatican II sources that denounce the falsehood and lies of the "buggy" AI in this matter.
Expose the errors in logic and factual inconsistencies about these past events and teachings.
Demonstrate why the popes were wrong in this.
Show us why the doctors and saints erred here.
Give us the true teaching according to...

Stubborn · « **Reply #46 on:** **Yesterday** at 05:13:32 AM »

Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on November 21, 2025, 03:34:22 PM

IDK if you can see this but everything the AI keeps spitting out is EXACTLY the same principle +Lefebvre and the SSPX used to defend against the charge of schism.

The Canon Law allows for one who perceives a threat to their faith to not be liable to penalties for subsequent acts of perceived disobedience. His and the society's whole canonical argument hinged on that.

He had "moral certitude" that the threat to the priesthood, Sacraments, and the faith was very real indeed, so based on that conviction HE HAD TO ACT.

The moral principle is the same with the Cathedral priest and removing the name of Nestorius.

And even now, any priest can (and I would argue should) use the same defense if they truly believe that Prevost is a manifest, public heretic.
Because the moral principle is there that they are truly NOT in communion with the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church due to their manifest, public heresy and to tell this to God in the Mass when convicted that they are heretics would be to tell a lie IF they were truly morally certain of the heresy being manifest, and public. Morally certainty is all that is required to act.

But I would go further myself and say I have absolute certainty that Vatican II taught heresy officially, though moral certainty will suffice.

That AI is saying what a heretic is, and it is also saying that the conciliar popes are not heretics, which makes the whole OP mute. And it is also saying sedes are schismatic, and it is also saying that sedes are not members of the Church, and it also says per the law of Quo Primum the pope's name cannot be omitted from the Canon of the Mass.

You want to pick and choose which teaching is true, well, for the sake of argument, so do I. I will pick the latter - per the law of Quo Primum the pope's name cannot be omitted from the Canon of the Mass.

Now what?

SkidRowCatholic · « **Reply #47 on:** **Yesterday** at 09:19:49 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn on Yesterday at 05:13:32 AM

Now what?

Don't worry, I realize that you didn't even take the time to read the AI post, so I can walk you through it one step at a time.

What do you think was the Catholic principle at play was when Pope St. Horsmodius said in his profession of faith.

"In no way do we desire to be in communion with those who do not agree with this Apostolic See."

And,

"We likewise condemn all who remain in communion with him."

And,

"I promise that from now on those who are separated from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, who are not in agreement with the Apostolic See, will not have their names read during the sacred mysteries.

Stubborn · « **Reply #48 on:** **Yesterday** at 10:56:58 AM »

Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on Yesterday at 09:19:49 AM

Don't worry, I realize that you didn't even take the time to read the AI post, so I can walk you through it one step at a time.

Don't worry, I realize that you didn't even take the time to read the AI post stating that Pope Paul VI and all the other conciliar popes were not heretics, so their names belong in the Canon.

SkidRowCatholic · « **Reply #49 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:06:56 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn on Yesterday at 10:56:58 AM

Pope Paul VI and all the other conciliar popes were not heretics, so their names belong in the Canon.

But wait...

So, just a check on your logic.

You say the AI is right about them not being heretics so their names belong in the Canon.

You say they are heretics so their names do belong in the Canon.

You deny (or just ignore, which is implicit denial) the Catholic principle of the necessity of being one in faith to share communion.

Simple point, you don't have to use the AI, I will. I will break it down for you step-by-step and then we can see which "crap" teachings you oppose and why.

So, step one:

Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on Yesterday at 09:19:49 AM

What do you think was the Catholic principle at play was when Pope St. Horsmodius said in his profession of faith.

"In no way do we desire to be in communion with those who do not agree with this Apostolic See."

And,

"We likewise condemn all who remain in communion with him."

And,

"I promise that from now on those who are separated from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, who are not in agreement with the Apostolic See, will not have their names read during the sacred mysteries.

What Catholic principle is being taught/expressed here?

TomGubbinsKimmage · « **Reply #50 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:19:41 AM »

Thank you skid for being the moral arbitrator of what is and is not Catholic.

Where would we be without you.

SkidRowCatholic · « **Reply #51 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:22:25 AM »

Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on Yesterday at 11:19:41 AM

Thank you skid for being the moral arbitrator of what is and is not Catholic.

Where would we be without you.

Is it the teaching or no Tom?

If you say no, which teachings do you disagree with and why?

You ad hominem me and then I rebuke you for it and your non-contribution to the OP.

Then you lash back because you are acting petty Tom.

If the teachings are false then stand up for the truth.

If the teachings are true why do you hate them so?

Stubborn · « **Reply #52 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:43:15 AM »

Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on Yesterday at 11:06:56 AM

But wait...

So, just a check on your logic.

You say the AI is right about them not being heretics so their names belong in the Canon.

You say they are heretics so their names do belong in the Canon.

You deny (or just ignore, which is implicit denial) the Catholic principle of the necessity of being one in faith to share communion.

Simple point, you don't have to use the AI, I will. I will break it down for you step-by-step and then we can see which "crap" teachings you oppose and why.

So, step one:
What Catholic principle is being taught/expressed here?

I don't know what you think you're accomplishing wit this AI thing, but it's junk, even worse, it's dangerous especially for converts who are less knowledgeable in the faith and crisis but who might use it thinking it is actually a reliable source for answers.

I said the popes are heretics, AI says they are not heretics.
You say they are heretics therefore not popes because their heresy puts them outside of the Church.
AI says they are true popes, not heretics, not outside of the Church.

I mean, the more pointed the question, the more this AI thing proves itself contradictory.

SkidRowCatholic · « **Reply #53 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:52:12 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn on Yesterday at 11:43:15 AM

I don't know what you think you're accomplishing wit this AI thing, but it's junk, even worse, it's dangerous especially for converts who are less knowledgeable in the faith and crisis but who might use it thinking it is actually a reliable source for answers.

Well, there is something to that train of thought...

Will Matthew's AI be "junk" or "even worse" if it confirms the teachings you reject?

You seem to suffer from some sort of double standard and self-confirming bias.

But, in charity you owe it to all the new converts to refute these erroneous lies of the "buggy" AI concerning the above OP.

So you will have to step through them 1-by-1 to show them why this AI is dangerous for them and how it is wrong about all this and rather it is you the equally anonymous/faceless Stubborn that has the true teaching.

So why not put your time and effort where your mouth(technically fingers) is/are (for the good of the poor souls who will be lead into errors of the "buggy" AI).

If you really believe what you are saying (unless you are a liar) then wouldn't you have a duty of charity to defend the truth and help those who could be led astray from falling into a pit of error?

Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on Yesterday at 09:19:49 AM

What do you think was the Catholic principle at play was when Pope St. Horsmodius said in his profession of faith.

"In no way do we desire to be in communion with those who do not agree with this Apostolic See."

And,

"We likewise condemn all who remain in communion with him."

And,

"I promise that from now on those who are separated from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, who are not in agreement with the Apostolic See, will not have their names read during the sacred mysteries.

Stubborn · « **Reply #54 on:** **Yesterday** at 12:33:24 PM »

Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on Yesterday at 11:52:12 AM

Well, there is something to that train of thought...

Will Matthew's AI be "junk" or "even worse" if it confirms the teachings you reject?

You seem to suffer from some sort of double standard and self-confirming bias.

AI says the conciliar pope are not heretics, we know they are heretics. That's not a double standard, that right there discredits that AI.

I don't have anything to say about Matthew's AI, I'm sure that he will release it when he's ready.

Quote

But, in charity you owe it to all the new converts to refute these erroneous lies of the "buggy" AI concerning the above OP.

Far as I'm concerned, I already did. Pope St. Pius V gave us the law of Quo Primum. He made it a law that nothing be omitted from the Mass, we have no need for AI to tell us that.

Quote

If you really believe what you are saying (unless you are a liar) then wouldn't you have a duty of charity to defend the truth and help those who could be led astray from falling into a pit of error?

Again, as far as I'm concerned, the sedes are the ones in error, you are trying to use that contradictory AI to convince us they are not. So be it, I hope you are right, I really do.

Quote

What do you think was the Catholic principle at play was when Pope St. Horsmodius said in his profession of faith.

"In no way do we desire to be in communion with those who do not agree with this Apostolic See."
And,
"We likewise condemn all who remain in communion with him."
And,
"I promise that from now on those who are separated from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, who are not in agreement with the Apostolic See, will not have their names read during the sacred mysteries

I never heard of him, so google says this...."There is no record of a "Pope St. Horsmodius." The name is likely a misspelling of
Pope St. Hormisdas (pope from 514 to 523)."

At any rate, whatever it is that you are trying to make of it, it appears to me that your quote is the direct result of the Acacian Schism, the AI says: "The schism ended in 519 when Eastern bishops signed the Formula of Hormisdas, reaffirming papal primacy and Chalcedonian orthodoxy."

SkidRowCatholic · « **Reply #55 on:** **Yesterday** at 02:39:20 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn on Yesterday at 12:33:24 PM

it appears to me that your quote is the direct result of the Acacian Schism.

What is the Catholic principle he is expressing in these quotes:

"In no way do we desire to be in communion with those who do not agree with this Apostolic See."
And,
"We likewise condemn all who remain in communion with him."
And,
"I promise that from now on those who are separated from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, who are not in agreement with the Apostolic See, will not have their names read during the sacred mysteries

Why would Pope St. Horsmisdas not want to include their names in the "sacred mysteries"?

Could it be that the principle is not to communicate in sacred matters with those who are outside the Church?

Could it be that to commemorate in the sacred mysteries those who are outside the Church such as heretics/schismatics is against Divine Law?

All the new converts need you to tell them the true meaning of this cryptic and confusing text of the Pope - that was made public for all back in the 500's as a profession of faith.

Can you please now teach what it really means so we can get rid of the the AI "crap" that is dangerous and misleading?

SkidRowCatholic · « **Reply #56 on:** **Yesterday** at 03:22:23 PM »

This confession of faith, which the Pope sent to Constantinople to be signed by all bishops who reunited with the Latin Church is known as the "Formula Hormisdae" and was repeatedly mentioned at the First Vatican Council.

The Formula of Hormisdas

"The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers. For it is impossible that the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, who said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church," [Matthew 16:18], should not be verified. And their truth has been proved by the course of history, for in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been kept unsullied. From this hope and faith we by no means desire to be separated and, following the doctrine of the Fathers, we declare anathema all heresies, and, especially, the heretic Nestorius, former bishop of Constantinople, who was condemned by the Council of Ephesus, by Blessed Celestine, bishop of Rome, and by the venerable Cyril, bishop of Alexandria. We likewise condemn and declare to be anathema Eutyches and Dioscoros of Alexandria, who were condemned in the holy Council of Chalcedon, which we follow and endorse. This Council followed the holy Council of Nicaea and preached the apostolic faith. And we condemn the assassin Timothy, surnamed Aelurus ["the Cat"] and also Peter [Mongos] of Alexandria, his disciple and follower in everything. We also declare anathema their helper and follower, Acacius of Constantinople, a bishop once condemned by the Apostolic See, and all those who remain in contact and company with them. Because this Acacius joined himself to their communion, he deserved to receive a judgment of condemnation similar to theirs. Furthermore, we condemn Peter ["the Fuller"] of Antioch with all his followers together together with the followers of all those mentioned above.

Following, as we have said before, the Apostolic See in all things and proclaiming all its decisions, we endorse and approve all the letters which Pope St Leo wrote concerning the Christian religion. And so I hope I may deserve to be associated with you in the one communion which the Apostolic See proclaims, in which the whole, true, and perfect security of the Christian religion resides. I promise that from now on those who are separated from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, who are not in agreement with the Apostolic See, will not have their names read during the sacred mysteries. But if I attempt even the least deviation from my profession, I admit that, according to my own declaration, I am an accomplice to those whom I have condemned. I have signed this, my profession, with my own hand, and I have directed it to you, Hormisdas, the holy and venerable pope of Rome."

What Catholic principle about not naming in the "sacred mysteries" those separated from communion with the Catholic Church is being expressed here?

Stubborn · « **Reply #57 on:** **Today** at 05:47:59 AM »

Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on Yesterday at 03:22:23 PM

This confession of faith, which the Pope sent to Constantinople to be signed by all bishops who reunited with the Latin Church is known as the "Formula Hormisdae" and was repeatedly mentioned at the First Vatican Council.

The Formula of Hormisdas

"The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers. For it is impossible that the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, who said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church," [Matthew 16:18], should not be verified. And their truth has been proved by the course of history, for in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been kept unsullied. From this hope and faith we by no means desire to be separated and, following the doctrine of the Fathers, we declare anathema all heresies, and, especially, the heretic Nestorius, former bishop of Constantinople, who was condemned by the Council of Ephesus, by Blessed Celestine, bishop of Rome, and by the venerable Cyril, bishop of Alexandria. We likewise condemn and declare to be anathema Eutyches and Dioscoros of Alexandria, who were condemned in the holy Council of Chalcedon, which we follow and endorse. This Council followed the holy Council of Nicaea and preached the apostolic faith. And we condemn the assassin Timothy, surnamed Aelurus ["the Cat"] and also Peter [Mongos] of Alexandria, his disciple and follower in everything. We also declare anathema their helper and follower, Acacius of Constantinople, a bishop once condemned by the Apostolic See, and all those who remain in contact and company with them. Because this Acacius joined himself to their communion, he deserved to receive a judgment of condemnation similar to theirs. Furthermore, we condemn Peter ["the Fuller"] of Antioch with all his followers together together with the followers of all those mentioned above.

Following, as we have said before, the Apostolic See in all things and proclaiming all its decisions, we endorse and approve all the letters which Pope St Leo wrote concerning the Christian religion. And so I hope I may deserve to be associated with you in the one communion which the Apostolic See proclaims, in which the whole, true, and perfect security of the Christian religion resides. I promise that from now on those who are separated from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, who are not in agreement with the Apostolic See, will not have their names read during the sacred mysteries. But if I attempt even the least deviation from my profession, I admit that, according to my own declaration, I am an accomplice to those whom I have condemned. I have signed this, my profession, with my own hand, and I have directed it to you, Hormisdas, the holy and venerable pope of Rome."

What Catholic principle about not naming in the "sacred mysteries" those separated from communion with the Catholic Church is being expressed here?

The Catholic principle of not naming those who've been officially declared by the pope to be in schism not to be named in the canon because they are in schism - you need to read the whole Formula - see my bolded in your quote above.

See, this (bolded) is always completely and totally ignored by the non-una cuм crowd.

Also, fwiw, this Formula was decreed over 1000 years before the Law of Quo Primum, which is the law we are under now, which condemns non-una cuм.

SkidRowCatholic · « **Reply #58 on:** **Today** at 09:45:08 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn on Today at 05:47:59 AM

The Catholic principle of not naming those who've been officially declared by the pope to be in schism not to be named in the canon because they are in schism.

Are schismatics to be considered "one in faith" with Catholics?
Were the Old Catholics right after Vatican I considered "one in faith" with Catholics?

In other words, do you agree that the core principle is more broad and actually twofold?

i.e.

I promise that from now on those who are separated from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, who are not in agreement with the Apostolic See, will not have
their names read during the sacred mysteries.

So the core principles would be more accurately stated thus,

"Only those who have the Catholic faith and acknowledge the legitimate spiritual authority over them should be named in that part of Mass because this naming symbolizes unity in the faith and eccelesastical subordination."

This is why the formula starts out with faith as supreme,

1) "The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers."

And then immediately expresses subordination,

2) "for in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been kept unsullied. From this hope and faith we by no means desire to be separated."

It is only after these two principles are established that the formula goes on to pronounce the anathemas.