Author Topic: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations (Read 10397 times)

AMDGJMJ · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2022, 12:23:41 PM »

Pope Leo XIII in his Aposolicae Curae on the Nullity of Anglican Orders:

"25. But the words which until recently were commonly held by Anglicans to constitute the proper form of priestly ordination namely, “Receive the Holy Ghost,” certainly do not in the least definitely express the sacred Ordel of Priesthood (sacerdotium) or its grace and power, which is chiefly the power “of consecrating and of offering the true Body and Blood of the Lord” (Council of Trent, Sess. XXIII, de Sacr. Ord. , Canon 1) in that sacrifice which is no “bare commemoration of the sacrifice offered on the Cross” (Ibid, Sess XXII., de Sacrif. Missae, Canon 3).

AMDGJMJ · « **Reply #26 on:** July 14, 2022, 12:24:45 PM »

Ibid...

"[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]That “form” consequently cannot be considered apt or sufficient for the Sacrament which omits what it ought essentially to signify.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]28. The same holds good of episcopal consecration. For to the formula, “Receive the Holy Ghost”, not only were the words “for the office and work of a bishop”, etc. added at a later period, but even these, as we shall presently state, must be understood in a sense different to that which they bear in the Catholic rite. Nor is anything gained by quoting the prayer of the preface, “Almighty God”, since it, in like manner, has been stripped of the words which denote the summum sacerdotium .[/color]

Giovanni Berto · « **Reply #27 on:** July 14, 2022, 12:31:07 PM »

Quote from: AMDGJMJ on July 14, 2022, 12:16:41 PM

I think people underestimate the importance of the "powers of the priesthood" part of Ordinations. Archbishop Lefebvre said that he believed the new rite was defective specifically because they left these parts out. It is similar to what the Anglicans did and how Leo XIII in his Aposolicae Curae said that it didn't matter if the Anglicans got the "preface prayer" correct because there was no mention of the offering of Masks and sacrifices which is essential to the priesthood.

There is actually a canon in the Council of Trent and the Catechism later expounding on this that says that the power to offer Masses and hear confessions is given through these two prayers. Before Vatican II, if either of these parts were omitted a priest had to be conditionally ordained.

I will attach the three most crucial points.

This line of thinking seems to imply that someone can receive half a sacrament. It doesn't make sense.

A man is either a priest or he is not. He cannot be half priest half layman.

If he is a priest, than he has all the sacramental powers. He may need jurisdictional powers to hear confessions, to witness marriages, but regarding sacraments, any real priest is a full priest.

The emergency baptism administered by nurses was not re-done conditionally afterwards. Only the rest of the baptismal ceremonies were done.

I don't understand how holy orders would be different.

epiphany · « **Reply #28 on:** July 14, 2022, 12:44:15 PM »

Quote from: Giovanni Berto on July 14, 2022, 12:31:07 PM

This line of thinking seems to imply that someone can receive half a sacrament. It doesn't make sense.

A man is either a priest or he is not. He cannot be half priest half layman.

If he is a priest, than he has all the sacramental powers. He may need jurisdictional powers to hear confessions, to witness marriages, but regarding sacraments, any real priest is a full priest.

The emergency baptism administered by nurses was not re-done conditionally afterwards. Only the rest of the baptismal ceremonies were done.

I don't understand how holy orders would be different.

Agreed.

2Vermont · « **Reply #29 on:** July 14, 2022, 01:40:43 PM »

Quote from: epiphany on July 14, 2022, 12:01:30 PM

Well, I don't put much weight in Fr. Cekada, God rest his soul. My one and only experience with him was not good. +Dolan apologized to me for Fr. Cekada's behavior.

So, do you think his assertion is untrue?

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Author Topic: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations (Read 10397 times)

AMDGJMJ

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations

AMDGJMJ

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations

Giovanni Berto

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations

epiphany

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations

2Vermont

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations