Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 14

Author Topic: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations  (Read 10379 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Giovanni Berto

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2022, 09:31:02 AM »
I agree that we should concentrate on the essential form.

If the essential form has problems, the rest becomes almost irrelevant.

If we try to envision the consequences of these problems, we could have a new kind of Sedevacantism. I mean, a layman can be elected Pope, but to be actually a Pope he needs to be a Bishop, right? I imagine that some traditional theologian has adressed this issue.

So, if Benedict XVI was only a Priest (his espiscopacy comes from the new rite), and Francis is a layman (both his priesthood and episcopacy comes from the new rites), then, John Paul II was the last Pope.

This is probably why the SSPX published that super long article back in 2006, I believe, saying that the new rites are valid. It was written by a Dominican from Avrille.
Logged

Offline SimpleMan

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2022, 09:33:41 AM »
Quote from: Giovanni Berto on July 14, 2022, 09:31:02 AM
I agree that we should concentrate on the essential form.

If the essential form has problems, the rest becomes almost irrelevant.

If we try to envision the consequences of these problems, we could have a new kind of Sedevacantism. I mean, a layman can be elected Pope, but to be actually a Pope he needs to be a Bishop, right? I imagine that some traditional theologian has adressed this issue.

So, if Benedict XVI was only a Priest (his espiscopacy comes from the new rite), and Francis is a layman (both his priesthood and episcopacy comes from the new rites), then, John Paul II was the last Pope.

This is probably why the SSPX published that super long article back in 2006, I believe, saying that the new rites are valid. It was written by a Dominican from Avrille.

Could you provide a link to that article?  I'd be interested to see their line of reasoning.

I know Father Stark personally, though we haven't been in contact in quite some time.  I'd be interested to know his reasoning as well.
Logged

Offline Giovanni Berto

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2022, 09:46:45 AM »
Quote from: SimpleMan on July 14, 2022, 09:33:41 AM
Could you provide a link to that article?  I'd be interested to see their line of reasoning.

I know Father Stark personally, though we haven't been in contact in quite some time.  I'd be interested to know his reasoning as well.

Here it is:

https://sspx.org/en/validity-new-rite-episcopal-consecrations

You might also be interested in Fr. Cekada's answer:
http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/NewEpConsArtPDF2.pdf
Logged

Offline 2Vermont

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2022, 09:48:34 AM »
Quote from: Giovanni Berto on July 14, 2022, 09:31:02 AM
So, if Benedict XVI was only a Priest (his espiscopacy comes from the new rite), and Francis is a layman (both his priesthood and episcopacy comes from the new rites), then, John Paul II was the last Pope.

This is probably why the SSPX published that super long article back in 2006, I believe, saying that the new rites are valid. It was written by a Dominican from Avrille.
It was actually Fall of 2005 [I believe November].  Yes, isn't the timing of their change in position interesting given Ratzinger was elected months earlier?
Logged

Offline DustyActual

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2022, 10:00:36 AM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on July 14, 2022, 09:28:39 AM
I am pretty sure there is at least another one from NY who joined the Ridgefield, CT SSPX location.  I can't remember the name...I'll try to research here on CI because I know we talked about years ago [and the NO bishop was part of my Archdiocese in NY].

Got it:  James Byrne....My mistake though...he is a NO monsignor never conditionally ordained. For some reason I thought he was bishop.
From what I've been told, Msgr. Byrnes desires to be conditionally ordained, but the SSPX won't allow him to be.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 14
« previous next »