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Author Topic: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations  (Read 10361 times)

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Offline epiphany

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2022, 09:44:58 AM »
Quote from: epiphany on July 15, 2022, 07:05:33 AM
Only the pope has authority to annul.  He can delegate the authority to someone else, but he has ultimate responsibility for their actions.
Let me clarify, i hope, so terminology doesn't get in the way.

The Pope has authority to judge dissolution.  Only God can annul.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2022, 12:05:43 PM »
Quote from: epiphany on July 15, 2022, 09:44:58 AM
Let me clarify, i hope, so terminology doesn't get in the way.

The Pope has authority to judge dissolution.  Only God can annul.

Well, God doesn't actively annul marriage either.  It's more a question of God knowing the fact that the marriage was never legitimate in the first place.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2022, 12:18:17 PM »
Quote from: Yeti on July 14, 2022, 02:53:27 PM
.
Actually, a priest is forbidden to give the sacraments to a public sinner, such as an adulterer.

The priest could say to such person, "The Church teaches that when two people get up in front of a priest and exchange matrimonial promises, that creates a spiritual bond that lasts until death. In any doubt as to whether that bond was formed, it must be presumed to have been formed unless the contrary is proved. Your statement from modernists whom everyone agrees are untrustworthy provides proves nothing since both you and we agree that they are untrustworthy with regard to the Faith. So we cannot accept your annulment here, and you must go back and live with the person you originally married, or we must consider you to be an adulterer."

Right, but the determination that any given person is an adulterer is what's at issue.  He does not have the authority to judge and then impose his judgment on consciences.  Only the Church has the authority to judge the matter.
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Offline epiphany

Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2022, 01:08:06 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 15, 2022, 12:05:43 PM
Well, God doesn't actively annul marriage either.  It's more a question of God knowing the fact that the marriage was never legitimate in the first place.
Thank you for the clarification.
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Offline ElwinRansom1970

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Re: Traditional Powers of the Priesthood absent in novus ordo ordinations
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2022, 01:30:23 PM »
Quote from: epiphany on July 15, 2022, 07:05:33 AM
Only the pope has authority to annul.  He can delegate the authority to someone else, but he has ultimate responsibility for their actions.
Nope. That is ultramontanist drivel! Ordinary bishops have the power and authority to judge the validity and liceity of sacraments by virtue of his ordination and office. Non-episcopal ordinaries have the same power and authority by virtue of office alone. Your ecclesiology would strip bishops of their powers derived from divine right, reducing them to mere vicars of the Office of Peter. Nope. Bad, bad ecclesiology! I hope that you are happy with your elevated concept of the Papacy that effectively reduces the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches to mere ritual peculiarities and elevates Francis-Bergoglio to a global God-Emperor. You must also LUV Vatican II since its docuŠ¼ents belong to the Ordinary Magisterium (and are thus binding on the faithful) as evidenced by Paul-Montini's signature on the 16 conciliar docuŠ¼ents.
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