Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Sacred: Catholic Liturgy, Chant, Prayers => Topic started by: Mercyandjustice on December 04, 2017, 08:18:51 PM
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Is there any theological significance to the words 'debts' and 'debtors' in St Matthew 6:12?
"Forgive is our debts as we forgive our debtors"
Can this verse be used to justify the Catholic belief in temporal punishment, indulgences, acts of penance, etc?
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mercyandjustice - Yes, there is a theological significance. Don't read too much into translations. Latin is a sacred language. English is not.
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mercyandjustice - Yes, there is a theological significance. Don't read too much into translations. Latin is a sacred language. English is not.
"Debts and debtors".
Interesting topic. Well, I think we can safely forget the translations, but what about the Tribe that has been looting the western hemisphere for the last 600 years until the popes gave in and finally decided to relax the strictures on usury? Now we're stuck. Oh, have you paid for your £70,000 home thrice over? We have.
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Is there any theological significance to the words 'debts' and 'debtors' in St Matthew 6:12?
"Forgive is our debts as we forgive our debtors"
Can this verse be used to justify the Catholic belief in temporal punishment, indulgences, acts of penance, etc?
Haven't seen you for a while. Good to see you back, Mercyandjustice.
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Why temporal punishment, indulgences, acts of penance? can you explain why you say that - not saying you're wrong. Just curious.
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In the context, Verse 13 and 14 shows the meaning.
[14] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=6&l=14-#x) For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences. [15] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=6&l=15-#x) But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences.
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From the Haydock Bible (http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id20.html)
Ver. 12. Of all the petitions this alone is repeated twice. God puts our judgment in our own hands, that none might complain, being the author of his own sentence. He could have forgiven us our sins without this condition, but he consulted our good, in affording us opportunities of practising daily the virtues of piety and mildness. (St. Chrysostom, hom. xx.) --- These debts signify not only mortal but venial sins, as St. Augustine often teaches. Therefore every man, be he ever so just, yet because he cannot live without venial sin, ought to say this prayer. (Cont. 2 epis. Pelag. lib. i. chap. 14.) --- (lib. xxi. de civit. Dei. chap. xxvii.) (Bristow)