Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father  (Read 466 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mercyandjustice

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 160
  • Reputation: +37/-17
  • Gender: Male
Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
« on: December 04, 2017, 08:18:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Is there any theological significance to the words 'debts' and 'debtors' in St Matthew 6:12?

    "Forgive is our debts as we forgive our debtors"

    Can this verse be used to justify the Catholic belief in temporal punishment, indulgences, acts of penance, etc?


    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
    « Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 09:50:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • mercyandjustice - Yes, there is a theological significance.  Don't read too much into translations.  Latin is a sacred language.  English is not.   
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline Gwaredd Thomas

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 261
    • Reputation: +84/-16
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
    « Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 12:56:44 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • mercyandjustice - Yes, there is a theological significance.  Don't read too much into translations.  Latin is a sacred language.  English is not.  

    "Debts and debtors".

    Interesting topic. Well, I think we can safely forget the translations, but what about the Tribe that has been looting the western hemisphere for the last 600 years until the popes gave in and finally decided to relax the strictures on usury? Now we're stuck. Oh, have you paid for your £70,000 home thrice over? We have.

    Dduw bendithia chi! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

    Online Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11662
    • Reputation: +6989/-498
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
    « Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 03:14:55 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Is there any theological significance to the words 'debts' and 'debtors' in St Matthew 6:12?

    "Forgive is our debts as we forgive our debtors"

    Can this verse be used to justify the Catholic belief in temporal punishment, indulgences, acts of penance, etc?
    Haven't seen you for a while. Good to see you back, Mercyandjustice.
    .
    Why temporal punishment, indulgences, acts of penance? can you explain why you say that - not saying you're wrong. Just curious.
    .
    In the context, Verse 13 and 14 shows the meaning.
    [14] For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences. [15] But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13823
    • Reputation: +5567/-865
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
    « Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 05:05:07 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • From the Haydock Bible


    Ver. 12. Of all the petitions this alone is repeated twice. God puts our judgment in our own hands, that none might complain, being the author of his own sentence. He could have forgiven us our sins without this condition, but he consulted our good, in affording us opportunities of practising daily the virtues of piety and mildness. (St. Chrysostom, hom. xx.) --- These debts signify not only mortal but venial sins, as St. Augustine often teaches. Therefore every man, be he ever so just, yet because he cannot live without venial sin, ought to say this prayer. (Cont. 2 epis. Pelag. lib. i. chap. 14.) --- (lib. xxi. de civit. Dei. chap. xxvii.) (Bristow)
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse