Author Topic: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father  (Read 209 times)

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Offline Mercyandjustice

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Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
« on: December 04, 2017, 08:18:51 PM »
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  • Is there any theological significance to the words 'debts' and 'debtors' in St Matthew 6:12?

    "Forgive is our debts as we forgive our debtors"

    Can this verse be used to justify the Catholic belief in temporal punishment, indulgences, acts of penance, etc?
    Christians who preach their doctrine with bitterness and sarcasm don't preach out of love for God or souls, but only to assert dominance over others; out of pride.

    Offline PG

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    Re: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
    « Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 09:50:00 PM »
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  • mercyandjustice - Yes, there is a theological significance.  Don't read too much into translations.  Latin is a sacred language.  English is not.   
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline Gwaredd Thomas

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    Re: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
    « Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 12:56:44 AM »
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  • mercyandjustice - Yes, there is a theological significance.  Don't read too much into translations.  Latin is a sacred language.  English is not.  

    "Debts and debtors".

    Interesting topic. Well, I think we can safely forget the translations, but what about the Tribe that has been looting the western hemisphere for the last 600 years until the popes gave in and finally decided to relax the strictures on usury? Now we're stuck. Oh, have you paid for your £70,000 home thrice over? We have.

    Dduw bendithia chi! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
    « Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 03:14:55 AM »
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  • Is there any theological significance to the words 'debts' and 'debtors' in St Matthew 6:12?

    "Forgive is our debts as we forgive our debtors"

    Can this verse be used to justify the Catholic belief in temporal punishment, indulgences, acts of penance, etc?
    Haven't seen you for a while. Good to see you back, Mercyandjustice.
    .
    Why temporal punishment, indulgences, acts of penance? can you explain why you say that - not saying you're wrong. Just curious.
    .
    In the context, Verse 13 and 14 shows the meaning.
    [14] For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences. [15] But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences.

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Theologocal significance of 'debts...debtors' in the Our Father
    « Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 05:05:07 AM »
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  • From the Haydock Bible


    Ver. 12. Of all the petitions this alone is repeated twice. God puts our judgment in our own hands, that none might complain, being the author of his own sentence. He could have forgiven us our sins without this condition, but he consulted our good, in affording us opportunities of practising daily the virtues of piety and mildness. (St. Chrysostom, hom. xx.) --- These debts signify not only mortal but venial sins, as St. Augustine often teaches. Therefore every man, be he ever so just, yet because he cannot live without venial sin, ought to say this prayer. (Cont. 2 epis. Pelag. lib. i. chap. 14.) --- (lib. xxi. de civit. Dei. chap. xxvii.) (Bristow)
    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine


     

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