Author Topic: The New Divine Innocents (Read 2582 times)

Croixalist · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2015, 03:54:54 PM »

Quote from: andysloan

And Maria Valtorta has strong sponsorship;

His Holiness Pope Pius XlI, February 26 1948:

"Publish this work as it is. there is no need to give an opinion about its origin, whether it be extraordinary or not. Who reads it, will understand."

See also;

http://www.valtorta.org/church_approval_history_reviews_and_critiques.asp

http://www.maria-valtorta.net/

Multiple Bishops and Archbishops (one of whom is a Major Archbishop, Padiyara of Ernakulam, head of the Syro-Malabar rite) have written letters of approval for the Malayalam translation of the Poem. Among them include; Archbishop Gregorous of Trivandrum, Bishop Benjamin of Darjeeling, Bishop D'souza of Pune, Bishop Kundukulam, Bishop Kureethara, and Bishop Soosa of Trivandrum. Bishop Soosa is later promoted to Archbishop by pope John Paul II

In general I think I can agree about charity running cold among Catholics. We sometimes go too far in trying to correct others and not far enough in building up the good things. But that's really cheap to bring up the moment such a controversial set of topics isn't instantly applauded.

What you are doing here is attempting to make Valtorta into something she is not, namely a formally approved visionary by the proper Church authorities in any way shape or form. I know, I know you'll say that the Vatican condemnation hardly holds weight against the supposed approval of Pius XII. I suppose it wouldn't, but what Pope would neglect to put in writing what he thought was important enough to approve? It doesn't matter really because hearsay has no weight. It might give you hope for some future recognition, but it doesn't give you the right to say it's good enough right now. It isn't, it really isn't.

Couple that with a desire to force all of us to agree with you lest we come across as "uncharitable" is a power play as much as any might pull around here. Precisely one of the reasons abortion is so abominable is because it robs those souls of the beatific vision. To all of the sudden reverse that church teaching because of one "mystic" is incredibly irresponsible. Not to mention, relying on an ill-advised conversation with a demoniac in the process!

You can do a lot better. If you're so concerned about unity among Catholics, then try to stay clear of the fringe topics. No one needs to believe Valtorta, a demon's ravings about anything, or the idea that all of the aborted go to Heaven. Is it really that difficult to stick to the tried and true? Do we have to constantly test each other's limits when we don't have to?

Prudence is a virtue!

andysloan · « **Reply #11 on:** October 08, 2015, 09:57:38 PM »

It is not Church teaching that aborted children do not receive the beatific vision, but the opinion of a number of theologians.

In fact, aborted children receive the baptism of blood, being crucified in their innocence.

As for Maria Valtorta, the endorsement of Pius XII is hardly an approval that should be dismissed out-of-hand!

Both the Divine Mercy devotion and Our Lady of Lipa were prohibited by the Church, but are now fully approved.

And you think I shouldn't be indignant when I see so many Catholics reject what Our Lord has given as a tremendous gift to the faithful? See what Our Lord had to say Himself to the holy priest Fr Michelini about the revelations to Maria Valtorta. You can also see the true definition of prudence!

"Among these priests is X; he is dear to Me because of his desire
of perfection and also by his love for the marvelous work that the
world ignores and that the proud reject, but that the humble love:

“The Poem of the Man-God.”

It is a work desired by divine Wisdom and Providence for the
new times; it is a source of living and pure water.
It is I, the living and eternal Word, who am giving myself as
food to the souls that I love. I am light, and light is not confused,
nor much less fused, with darkness. Where I enter, darkness is
dissipated, to give place to the light.
Where there is no life, there is death, and death is putrefaction.
There is a spiritual putrefaction that is no less nauseating than
organic putrefaction of bodies that rot. I, who am truth and life,
living water and the light of the world, how could I make my
dwelling in souls infected with the concupiscence of the flesh and
of the spirit?
Son, this also proves that he who has not felt in the "Poem" the
savor of the divine, the perfume of the supernatural, has his soul
darkened and filled with obstacles.
There are bishops, priests and men and women religious who
still hide themselves in this prudence, for them the cause of so
many imprudences. They withdraw inside themselves and know
not that they are in the refuge of the demon. Prudence is virtue,
and virtue is not nauseated at the presence of the divine.
My son, to what depths have we arrived!
Let Rev. X know that every time he re-reads the “Poem of the
ManGod,” he is giving Me joy, for all those who have denied it to Me.
Let him fear nothing, even if there are those who reject it and
do not understand it."

http://english.michelini.in/

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Matto · « **Reply #12 on:** October 08, 2015, 10:06:42 PM »

Quote from: andysloan

It is not Church teaching that aborted children do not receive the beatific vision, but the opinion of a number of theologians.

So now everyone has BOB even all of those babies who die without baptism. The Church defined that those who die in original sin alone all go to hell for no reason because all of those who die in original sin alone really have Baptism of Blood and nobody goes to hell. You have no faith.

andysloan · « **Reply #13 on:** October 08, 2015, 11:31:01 PM »

Matto, are you not able to maturely state your case? Why are the mocking icons necessary to you?

Proverbs 3:32

"For every mocker is an abomination to the Lord, and his communication is with the simple."

John 13:34

"A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

And then I am told I have no faith, which is ridiculous (8th commandment).

The Church teaching you quote is correct. But the case with the aborted babies is distinct from this. In direction of providence, they are subjected to the cruelest murder in attack and destruction of their innocence. The point of doctrine is that they are thereby martyrs, baptised in their own innocent blood.

You can study the website of the Divine Innocence, if you wish to understand the theology.

http://divine-innocence.org/

Stubborn · « **Reply #14 on:** October 09, 2015, 06:00:32 AM »

Quote from: Pope Pius IX

We address to the members of this Congress well-merited praise, because.... they have recognized and accepted that all Catholics are obliged in conscience in their writings to obey the dogmatic decrees of the Catholic Church, which is infallible..........this perfect adhesion to revealed truths, which they have recognized to be absolutely necessary to the true progress of science and the refutation of error,

So Andy, Pope Pius IX decrees it "absolutely necessary" to use the "dogmatic decrees" to refute error.

Produce dogmatic decrees (not an interpretation of dogmatic decrees) that support your belief that salvation is rewarded to people who die without ever having been baptized and you will achieve victory in this debate.

Since you will never be able to accomplish this, accept that the feeneyites ALWAYS follow the teachings of the Church and Pope Pius IX and produce many dogmatic decrees to refute the error of a BOD - why do you remain disobedient to the dogmatic decrees?