Author Topic: The first Thanksgiving was Catholic (Read 3995 times)

lthngsbrtnbtfl · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2007, 02:34:19 PM »

Quote from: gilbertgea

Wow. I'm speechless.

Yippeeeeee! I did it! :roll-laugh2:

Thanks, Gilbertgea. You even made my point for me. Cheers.

Miss_Fluffy · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2007, 03:14:23 PM »

I'm with you lil'things. I also think alot of the crap written about the puritans is propaganda. They may have covered themselves from head to toe, but they were a hard-working, life-loving bunch.

I've read some "puritan apologetics" so to speak. And it seems to me they were not as awful, nor as prude as the Scarlett letter would make them out to be. They had bars, and children out-of-wedlock, and fights, and everything else. Point is, they tried hard. I rather admire them.

Another point, as far as I know, all of the witch trials in the early history of the united states have been directly linked to hysteria induced by ergot poisoning.

lthngsbrtnbtfl · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2007, 03:35:35 PM »

Exactly...all of that is a given. The point is that we're setting up a double standard. Lest we dare admitting that a non-Catholic could possibly be (gulp) a...good person...we'd rather glorify the despicable actions of the Spanish Conquistadors, because at least they're Catholic.

It makes no difference which one is worse. They could both be rotting in He##, for all I care. Let's stop this dog-and-pony show. St. Augustine was quite the reveler in his day and had two children out of wedlock. He became a Doctor of the Church. Good thing we didn't burn him, eh?

And despite the fact that this country is going there in a handbasket, and that a lot of terrible things happened to make it the country it is (or was...), yes, I am thankful that I am not a slave, or a serf, or legally unable to own property because I'm not an aristocrat. As far as I can tell, either Gilbert is Spanish, or he wouldn't mind being human chattel as long as he's Catholic.

:confused1:

Nomas · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2007, 03:50:00 PM »

Yeah the Puritans where great especially that Oliver Cromwell fella who massacred hundreds of thousands of Catholic men, women and children and who can forget when in 1644 they banned Christmas celebrations in England, those guys sure knew how to party.

You need to stop believing that Protestant American History they taught you at school and on the tv and instead learn the truth. The Spanish conquest of Mexico was far more benign than the Protestant conquest of the US.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2007, 03:53:52 PM »

One thing I notice in what I have read about the history of the colonization of America is how much the Spanish Empire is skipped over. I guess, supposedly, the Catholic Spaniards were all evil and had been only interested in gold and spices, while the Protestant English wanted freedom from religious persecution. :rolleyes:
We have to not make generalizations like that because they are inaccurate. Economic success is not the measure of how well a nation fairs. Spain may have ended up waning in its power while England gained greater dominance politically and economically, but that does not mean England was also doing better than Spain in the order of grace. We also must not generalize that all the native tribes of America were good while the European colonizers were all evil.
Some men were good and some were evil among either the native American tribes or Europeans. I had gathered that some natives were receptive to the gospel Columbus brought. There had to have been some later on as well. I imagine there were forced conversions too, but ever since the Blessed Mother appeared to St. Juan Diego, there was biggest mass conversion to the Catholic faith so far in history. It may have either overcompensated or compensated for the contemporary loss of souls to Protestantism. If there were any American Indians converting to Protestantism though, there were not as many as those who converted in the Spanish Empire.
The Aztec Empire that was conquered by Spain was pretty brutal, and the attacks of the Spaniards would have been nothing compared to the daily demonic practices of the Aztecs. Spain brought the truth to the New World, whereas the Protestant English did not. There were English Catholics attempting to have a safe haven in Maryland, but that sadly was not a great success for them.

Nomas · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2007, 04:14:35 PM »

You want to know why Maryland wasn't a great success because the Catholics introduced the Tolerance Act and when the Anglicans forced the Puritans out of Virginia the Catholics of Maryland took them in and gave them land.

Do you know how the Puritans repaid the Catholics kindness, they revolted set up a new Government and made Catholicism illegal, so ended the Catholic dream that was Maryland.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2007, 04:18:57 PM »

There were slaves in the Spanish Empire, but there were laws protecting them. In the English colonies though, there were even white sorts of slaves known as indentured servants. Slavery is not opposed to the natural law as some may think. It is simply an exchange of services of one to the owner of the services for basic needs. It is similar to having a job, although slaves do not have to deal with money and have services owned by a master. The institution became problematic though due to the use of the slave trade and slaves being treated more like property as well as simply being mistreated. That is why the Church ended up calling for its abolition.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2007, 04:26:00 PM »

http://www.geocities.com/adam_todm/USCatholic_History/First_Thanksgiving.html

I remembered finding out though that the first Thanksgiving was actually celebrated in 1541 in the Palo Duro Canyon of north Texas.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2007, 04:27:21 PM »

I wonder if there is such thing as a little Spanish conquistador smiley you can add, Chantcd.

lthngsbrtnbtfl · « **Reply #12 on:** November 13, 2007, 04:45:38 PM »

Quote from: Nomas

Yeah the Puritans where great especially that Oliver Cromwell fella who massacred hundreds of thousands of Catholic men, women and children and who can forget when in 1644 they banned Christmas celebrations in England, those guys sure knew how to party.

Yes, and "Bloody Mary" massacred the Protestants. The French slaughtered the Huguenots. Lots of Bloody wars have been fought. We could argue the point all day about who is worse, but where will it get us?

Quote

You need to stop believing that Protestant American History they taught you at school and on the tv and instead learn the truth. The Spanish conquest of Mexico was far more benign than the Protestant conquest of the US.

Neither of them was benign. Neither were any of the millions of wars of conquest fought over the millenia. War and religious persecution have been with us from the beginning. Considering the outright Satanism we are faced with today, I hardly think that we need to get our collective panties in a bind over whether Thanksgiving began as a Protestant Holiday or not. Most of our religious holidays began as a Pagan Holiday that was then "whitewashed". Get over it.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2007, 04:51:33 PM »

The point is that it is better to be Catholic than Protestant. Sure, some Protestants might be invincibly ignorant and others may seem good, but that does not guarantee salvation for them. We must always have hope for their salvation, but they cannot have it unless they are Catholic, or in other words, have sanctifying grace that comes from God. The bad Catholics though do not take away from that at all. Such Catholics fair worse spiritually, of course.

Nomas · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2007, 04:52:57 PM »

Wow you have no idea about anything do you, you say we are faced by satanism today but I ask you where the Conquistidors facing anything less when they met the Aztecs and watched them sacrificing people to demons.

Mary hardly killed any Protestants and was positively tolerant compared to Elizabeth and Cromwell. And the rule of the Spanish was certainly an improvement after the rule of the Aztecs.