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Author Topic: The explanation of the Adam and Eve story doesn't fully compute...  (Read 6676 times)

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Ok, everyone here is familiar with the Adam and Eve story but often the Catholic explanation is that the reason Eve was tempted was because Adam was supposed to be there to keep an eye on her and protect her from Satan and tell him to go kick rocks but he wasn't and she fell as a result and influenced him to fall also.  It's known as the Sin of Adam because ultimately it was up to him, etc.  

Where this explanation, or other similar Catholic explanations, don't fully make sense is if they were both in a state of Original Innocence and didn't have concupisence and all the other issues that Original Sin brings then why did Adam need to be there to babysit her or protect her?  Death wasn't even a thing yet, and she should have just known it was wrong based on what Adam told her and should have been just as capable to tell the Devil to go kick rocks as Adam since she had nothing to fear as fear wasn't a thing yet either.

I know women, by nature, are scared of basically everything (yes I know there's exceptions), but that's after Original Sin, not before, so the Catholic explanations for this don't make a lot of sense.  

Anyone know of a better explanation or a way to reconcile this with how they supposedly had Original Sin defects or affects before Original Sin was even a thing?  In the state of Original Innocence why did Adam need to be there to protect her or make sure she didn't do something dumb?  She also had Original Innocence.  

Put in anonymous thread because wasn't entirely sure where to put this otherwise plus some may want to retain anonyminity with their replies.   

Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: The explanation of the Adam and Eve story doesn't fully compute...
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2023, 10:35:15 PM »
Ok, everyone here is familiar with the Adam and Eve story but often the Catholic explanation is that the reason Eve was tempted was because Adam was supposed to be there to keep an eye on her and protect her from Satan and tell him to go kick rocks but he wasn't and she fell as a result and influenced him to fall also.  It's known as the Sin of Adam because ultimately it was up to him, etc. 

Where this explanation, or other similar Catholic explanations, don't fully make sense is if they were both in a state of Original Innocence and didn't have concupisence and all the other issues that Original Sin brings then why did Adam need to be there to babysit her or protect her?  Death wasn't even a thing yet, and she should have just known it was wrong based on what Adam told her and should have been just as capable to tell the Devil to go kick rocks as Adam since she had nothing to fear as fear wasn't a thing yet either.

I know women, by nature, are scared of basically everything (yes I know there's exceptions), but that's after Original Sin, not before, so the Catholic explanations for this don't make a lot of sense. 

Anyone know of a better explanation or a way to reconcile this with how they supposedly had Original Sin defects or affects before Original Sin was even a thing?  In the state of Original Innocence why did Adam need to be there to protect her or make sure she didn't do something dumb?  She also had Original Innocence. 

Put in anonymous thread because wasn't entirely sure where to put this otherwise plus some may want to retain anonyminity with their replies. 
Pretty sure Adam's sin was eating the fruit (disobeying/pride).
From what I understand original sin is passed through the male line.


Re: The explanation of the Adam and Eve story doesn't fully compute...
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2023, 10:36:50 PM »
Anyone know of a better explanation or a way to reconcile this with how they supposedly had Original Sin defects or affects before Original Sin was even a thing?  In the state of Original Innocence why did Adam need to be there to protect her or make sure she didn't do something dumb?  She also had Original Innocence. 
They didn't have any defects.... but they had FREE WILL and they'd been told "don't eat from this tree"  

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: The explanation of the Adam and Eve story doesn't fully compute...
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2023, 10:39:14 PM »
Pretty sure Adam's sin was eating the fruit (disobeying/pride).
From what I understand original sin is passed through the male line.
Now for a more mystical explanation of Eves sin per St John of the Cross, Eve first looked at the apple seeing it was pleasing to her eyes. From there she was easily induced by satan to eat it.
Eve did not mortify her desires, same with Solomon. Hence if your eye scandalise you.... So it's important to mortify desires and dont/take yourself from the occasion of sin, because it is so easy to fall, don't be prideful thinking you are safe, because it's only by Gods grace that once can resist temptation.

Offline trad123

  • Supporter
Re: The explanation of the Adam and Eve story doesn't fully compute...
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2023, 10:57:28 PM »
often the Catholic explanation is that the reason Eve was tempted was because Adam was supposed to be there to keep an eye on her and protect her from Satan and tell him to go kick rocks

Is there a source for that?



Eve did not mortify her desires, same with Solomon. Hence if your eye scandalise you.... So it's important to mortify desires and dont/take yourself from the occasion of sin, because it is so easy to fall, don't be prideful thinking you are safe, because it's only by Gods grace that once can resist temptation.



Q. 17: The Knowledge of the First Man in the State of Innocence

ARTICLE VI

In the sixth article we ask: Could Adam in the state of innocence be mistaken or deceived?
 

https://isidore.co/aquinas/english/QDdeVer18.htm#6


Quote
Difficulties

5. When the woman heard what the serpent promised, she hoped to be able to obtain it; otherwise, her desire would have been stupid. However, there was no stupidity before the fall. But no one hopes for what he considers impossible. Therefore, since what the devil promised was impossible, it seems that in believing this the woman was deceived before the fall.


Answers to Difficulties

5. The woman hoped that in some way she would be able to get what the serpent promised, and she believed that this was in some way possible. In this she was led astray, as the Apostle says (1 Tim. 2:14). But a certain elation of mind preceded that leading astray, and because of it she inordinately desired her own excellence, which she realized as soon as the serpent spoke, as men frequently are lifted above themselves when they hear words of flatterers. And this exaltation which preceded concerned her own proper excellence in general and is the first sin. There followed this the seduction by which she believed that what the serpent was saying was true. Thus, there resulted the exaltation with which she definitely desired this excellence which the serpent promised.