Author Topic: The end for the 1962 Missal  (Read 2420 times)

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Offline Tridentine MT

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The end for the 1962 Missal
« on: October 08, 2017, 12:27:04 PM »
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  • The latest tactic to divide us traditional Catholics further?

    It seems that next year, the Conciliar Church will throw away the 1962 Missal.


    "Recent reforms have amply demonstrated that fresh changes in the liturgy could lead to nothing but complete bewilderment on the part of the faithful" Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani

    "Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 12:33:06 PM »
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  • Good. One less excuse.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 12:54:38 PM »
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  • This would be the inevitable result of having compromised with the Revolution early on,  instead of resting the Traditional movement unmovably upon Quo Primum and the Missal of Pius V, and having led Traditionalists directly into the maw of the conciliar monster.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 02:39:22 PM »
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  • This would be the inevitable result of having compromised with the Revolution early on,  instead of resting the Traditional movement unmovably upon Quo Primum and the Missal of Pius V, and having led Traditionalists directly into the maw of the conciliar monster.
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    The 1962 Missal was a seductive trap from the very start. There was no reason to produce it in the first place EXCEPT to pave the way for the revolution, Vatican II and the Newmass. There are exactly ZERO improvements in it over the Traditional Canonized Latin Mass which was canonized by Pope St. Pius V in Quo Primum.
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    Some of its innovations are retained by even a breakaway group like CMRI which doesn't specifically use it. That's because there were several innovations put into practice during the reign of Pius XII (upon whom the CMRI presumes to pass judgment as "last valid pope") but didn't make it into a new edition of the Missal at the time, therefore the next new edition emerged in 1962, the year the new council was begun. In fact, the issuance of this new ostensibly traditional Missal was a cute smokescreen to obfuscate the fact that the Modernists were preparing to launch their great experiment on Holy Mother Church and the New Missal was there to make it all seem nice and traditional, to put on the face of propriety. 
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    It "led the Traditionalists directly into the maw of the conciliar monster."
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 02:55:53 PM »
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  • The latest tactic to divide us traditional Catholics further?

    It seems that next year, the Conciliar Church will throw away the 1962 Missal.
    .
    From the linked site, http://pro-tridentina-malta.blogspot.com.mt/2017/10/breaking-news-massive-liturgical.html :
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    Reliable sources close to the Holy See have indicated that sometime in the second half of 2018, the Novus Ordo Lectionary and Calendar are to be imposed upon the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Mass.
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    The new Roman Missal will become available on the First Sunday of Advent 2018 but the Vatican will allow a two-year period to phase it in. These changes are expected to be much more drastic than what was envisaged in Universae Ecclesiae that states:
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    25. New saints and certain of the new prefaces can and ought to be inserted into the 1962 Missal, according to provisions which will be indicated subsequently. (emphasis ours)
    The Vatican approved societies and institutes, such as the Fraternity of Saint Peter and the Institute of Christ the King, will likely apply for exemptions, but all requests are expected to be turned down. The only exception seems to be the SSPX, which might be granted a temporary exemption, to ensure that an agreement is reached between the SSPX and Rome.  However, if the exemption granted will be of a temporary nature, more SSPX priests are expected to join the so-called Resistance (formerly known as SSPX-SO) under Bishop Richard Williamson and more will go independent.This would make the traditional Catholic movement more fragmented than ever before.
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    The "so-called Resistance," is it?
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    "Formerly known as SSPX-SO under Bishop Richard Williamson," is it?
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    I wonder if anyone bothered to inform +W he was the leader of the formerly known SSPX-SO? Or, is the writer of this screed merely following what he's read on Traditio.com? Hey, maybe the author of this screed is the source that Traditio has been using! That would explain a lot.
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    Keep in mind that when the so-called announcement that the Third Secret of Fatima would not be released, not now and probably not ever, it came by way of an unidentified little ad spot in an Italian secular newspaper, citing reliable sources close to the Holy See. No one ever took responsibility for making the so-called announcement. Perhaps whoever it was is currently burning in hell(?)
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 03:07:11 PM »
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  • .
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    By insisting that Una Voce abandons the Canonized Latin Mass in favor of the 1962 Missal, the Holy See has had Una Voce right where they want them for many years, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

    From the linked site:


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    Foederatio Internationalis Una Voce


    The FIUV is a lay movement, and its principal aims are to ensure that the Missale Romanum (1962 edition) is maintained in the Church as one of the forms of liturgical celebration, and to safeguard and promote the use of Latin, Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony. A General Assembly is convened every two years in Rome and elections are held for the Council and Presidency. The current President is Mr Felipe Alanis from Una Voce Mexico. The Federation is recognized by the Holy See, its views are received with courtesy and respect by the relevant Roman Congregations, and its representatives are received by them in the same manner.
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    Offline Augustine Linst

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 02:03:02 AM »
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  • Is it a Traditio scoop?!? :fryingpan:

    Then it's fake...

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #7 on: October 09, 2017, 06:21:45 AM »
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  • No.  Traditio was not the source.  Click on the link.  It is the "Pro Tridentina (Malta)" website.  I explored the website and it appears to contain a lot of general news that has been elsewhere widely reported.




    Offline Augustine Linst

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #8 on: October 09, 2017, 08:20:30 AM »
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  • No.  Traditio was not the source.  Click on the link.  It is the "Pro Tridentina (Malta)" website.  I explored the website and it appears to contain a lot of general news that has been elsewhere widely reported.
    I was referring to Neil Obstat's post where it was stated:
    I wonder if anyone bothered to inform +W he was the leader of the formerly known SSPX-SO? Or, is the writer of this screed merely following what he's read on Traditio.com? Hey, maybe the author of this screed is the source that Traditio has been using! That would explain a lot. 

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #9 on: October 09, 2017, 08:28:31 AM »
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  • Neil Obstat,
    Quote
    The 1962 Missal was a seductive trap from the very start. 
    Indeed it was and look how most of the major Traditional clerics and leaders fell for it, dragging the faithful behind them. All to please a conciliar Rome which was already on its way out of the Catholic Religion.

    Now, when this next monument to the Revolution and milestone of it, is put into place, let us see if the "so called" independents have the principles and Catholic sensus, to return to the Missal of Pius V, where they should have been all along, or whether they will remain with the conciliar book and continue to attest to the Catholicity of the entity.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #10 on: October 09, 2017, 08:32:42 AM »
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  • Neil Obstat,Indeed it was and look how most of the major Traditional clerics and leaders fell for it, dragging the faithful behind them. All to please a conciliar Rome which was already on its way out of the Catholic Religion.

    Now, when this next monument to the Revolution and milestone of it, is put into place, let us see if the "so called" independents have the principles and Catholic sensus, to return to the Missal of Pius V, where they should have been all along, or whether they will remain with the conciliar book and continue to attest to the Catholicity of the entity.
    "Lex orandi..."

    One less excuse.

    It's gonna be just more drawing lines, making dares, then drawing another line when the prior is crossed.

    How many times have we heard "If (x) does/says (y), then that tears it!" 

    (you show them how x already has) 

    (insert excuse)

    "Okay! This time I'm super for real serious, if x does y..."
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #11 on: October 09, 2017, 09:20:21 AM »
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  • Fr Wathen never liked the 1962 missal but he said, in the grand scheme of all the V2 chaos, that it was a small issue.  Most of the changes were normal (i.e. updated calendar) and some were even necessary (simplification of feast days and classes of feasts).  Obviously the Easter changes were revolutionary but aside from this, there's bigger fish to fry.

    As far as the coming 'hybrid' missal; this has been a long time coming.  It's the logical next step for new-rome.  But it will mean nothing.  Unless they revise Quo Primum, then legally the 1962 missal will still exist, it will still ALWAYS be legal, and nothing will change that.  This 'hybrid' missal will only further draw the "neo conservatives" from the True Mass/indult into the new mass fantasy land.  New Rome allowed the True Mass again, but only to entrap the sspx.  Now that the sspx has been neutered and now that the indult mass is growing, they can kill 2 birds with one stone and attempt to squash the True Mass for good.  But, legally, they can never squash it; they'll just hope everyone will forget Quo Primum exists.  And most will...

    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 09:48:37 AM »
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  • As far as the coming 'hybrid' missal; this has been a long time coming.  It's the logical next step for new-rome.  But it will mean nothing.  Unless they revise Quo Primum, then legally the 1962 missal will still exist, it will still ALWAYS be legal, and nothing will change that. 
    Thanks Pax Vobis... I've been trying to wrap my mind around the importance of this issue... you seem to have confirmed what I suspected...

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #13 on: October 09, 2017, 10:14:32 AM »
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  • Even Abp. LeFebvre used the 1962 missal.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: The end for the 1962 Missal
    « Reply #14 on: October 09, 2017, 11:10:39 AM »
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  • Even Abp. LeFebvre used the 1962 missal.
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    It was not his first choice. He had been reverting to the pre-1955 rubrics and propers consistently until a controversy erupted with "the Eight" which eventually morphed into sedevacantism. Fr. Gregory Hesse put the questions to rest when he explained in detail how it all panned out. ABL was put into a position of being marginalized more severely, OR, if he were to accept the 1962 Missal then Rome would be less severe with the SSPX, so ABL chose the latter to make life less problematic, as he didn't think there was enough difference to fight over. Fr. Hesse said, You see, that's how Rome does things, by intrigue and manipulation. 
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    One of the minor changes attached to the '62 Missal is the non-use of the maniple (no relation to "manipulation"). You won't find any mention of the maniple in the '62 Missal itself, but it was quietly set aside in practice at the time, and it seems to me this was part of the overall plan to introduce the Newmass. Even today, sometimes SSPX priests use one and sometimes they don't. It's no big deal, but it's one drop in the bucket, so to speak, for when you add up enough drops you get a bucketful, whereas keeping all the longstanding traditions in place anchors your Mass in Tradition. If you go around making lots of little changes eventually Anglicans look more "traditional." Before Vat.II the maniple was universally used by all priests; after the Gospel in Latin at the altar (left side) the priest would remove the maniple and place it over the open Gospel pages, then turn to leave the altar and go to the pulpit where he would give the sermon, etc. The significance of the maniple is to show that the sermon is not part of Mass, and that Mass is momentarily interrupted for the time it takes to give the sermon and announcements, or perhaps to read the Epistle and Gospel in vernacular from the pulpit. One independent priest told me that he feels somehow incompletely vested without a maniple at Mass, like it's one step in the wrong direction.
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    Today, you will see +Williamson using the maniple and placing it over the Gospels while he gives his sermon, then returning to Mass and putting the maniple back on. I have noticed +Tissier de Mallarais do so as well. I don't know about +Fellay or the others (incl. 3 new ones consec. by +W).  I have noticed various independent priests in various parts of the world using the maniple in the same traditional way. But occasionally they don't take it off when they give the sermon, and I don't know why, perhaps they just forgot to remove it. Some SSPX priests apparently never use a maniple. I have seen CMRI priests who use it, some who don't, others who consistently take it off and hand it to an altar boy while giving the sermon instead of placing it over the Gospels. From what I have seen in videos, ABL always used the maniple in the traditional way, placing it over the Gospels during the sermon and replacing it on his left arm after returning to the altar for Mass.
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    If a Catholic doesn't know any better, he might get the impression that a maniple is a liturgical ornament that only bishops use. But that would be incorrect -- however, it's not an unreasonable deduction to make when one sees a bishop using it and his priests not using it. Then there's other bishops not using it, and some using it sometimes and not other times while priests under the same bishop do not use it, while others do. 
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    One thing is clear: Novus Ordo priests do not use a maniple. I suppose there could be exceptions, though.
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