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Author Topic: The Ceasing of the Holy Sacrifice during Antichrist's reign  (Read 171 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: The Ceasing of the Holy Sacrifice during Antichrist's reign
« Reply #5 on: Today at 10:27:55 AM »
I think it was + Altenbach (r.i.p.) who said the last Mass on earth signals the end of time. That there is no reason for the earth to exist without the continual propitiatory sacrifice of Calvary.   

An argument could be made that the "Apostolic" church has ceased to exist, and has defected, by virtue of the fact that there is no real authority of rule anywhere, no pope and no bishops who are ordinaries. Apostolic succession requires a real power of jurisidiction. So in this sense the sacrifice may have ceased already (but see below regarding China).

Or the "sacrifice" may ceasing on earth spoken of by these saints and doctors, if accurate, may "only" point to it ceasing to be offered in an "Apostolic" church that hasn't defected, one legitimately tracing itself back in a continuing, unbroked line to the Apostles. Under that scenario, it may indeed still survive in Sede chapels under bishops/priests lacking the power of jurisdiction of rule. Of maybe not, as some Home Aloners posit.


But there may be Apostolic succession in, for example, China, where some of the Pius XII bishops given authority to consecrate bishops "underground" by Pius XII have done so. In which case, this sacrifice ceasing that I spoke of would still be in the offing.

We are in unique times, perhaps End Time prophesied times that are indeed unlike anything the world has witnessed to day in the age of the New Covenant, as those days are described - see, for example, Matthew 24:21.

The powerful testimony of the "sacrifice ceasing" provides some interesting context to these times. Again, perhaps.

All of this is just speculation, food for thought, of course.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Ceasing of the Holy Sacrifice during Antichrist's reign
« Reply #6 on: Today at 01:43:26 PM »
All of this is just speculation, food for thought, of course.
Yes, we really have zero clue when it comes to this - God made sure of that.

 Unless they had visions, I don't think it possible that the saints in the OP could have imagined these days - or what's yet to come.

Lord have mercy. :pray:


Offline Yeti

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Re: The Ceasing of the Holy Sacrifice during Antichrist's reign
« Reply #7 on: Today at 03:08:38 PM »
But there may be Apostolic succession in, for example, China, where some of the Pius XII bishops given authority to consecrate bishops "underground" by Pius XII have done so. In which case, this sacrifice ceasing that I spoke of would still be in the offing.
.

All the ordinaries appointed by Pius XII are dead. The last one was in South America, and he died about five years ago over a hundred years old.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Ceasing of the Holy Sacrifice during Antichrist's reign
« Reply #8 on: Today at 04:10:11 PM »
So ... I've never seen it proven that the Church would defect if there are no longer any bishops left with ordinary jurisdiction due to direct papal appointment.  Just as the papacy does not formally defect when it cease to be materially occupied (a different use of that distinction), because it continues on in potency, I don't see why the same cannot be said of ordinary jurisdiction.  Bishops have that potency to hold ordinary jurisdiction by virtue of their Holy Order combined with being Catholic.  So long as that potency remains, it's no different than saying that the Church and the Papacy do not defect when vacant.

During even a "normal" interregnum, it's Christ who formally supplies jurisdiction to the bishops who had been appointed by the deceased pope ... and one could make a case that this mode of jurisdiction is not "ordinary" either, since there's no Pope supplying it.  Of course, Father Lavery CMRI ... rejecting this common understanding among theologians, that Christ, the actual Head of the Church, continues to supply jurisdiction in the absence of a Vicar or, for cases of Sacramental jurisdiction, "the Church" supplies ... rejecting these commonly-held formulae, Father claims that all jurisdiction must come from the Pope, not the Church, nor Christ ... and so, basically, he says that it's the ghost of Pius XII that's continuing to provide jurisdiction.  Of course, the fatal flaw with his theory (among the general absurdity of it), is that ... well, uhm, Pacelli is no longer Pope, since he's dead.  So Pacelli cannot supply anything to anyone, since "nemo dat quod non habet".