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Author Topic: The '62 Missal  (Read 1024 times)

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Offline Dawn

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The '62 Missal
« on: September 25, 2007, 08:12:30 AM »
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  • Offline Dawn

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    The '62 Missal
    « Reply #1 on: September 25, 2007, 08:24:10 AM »
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  • I have been reading on this topic and I have a question. Since the 1962 Missal was instigated by Bugnini a Son of Satan Mason, how does one justify that anything coming from this man? And, in light of Pope Pius V own words it is clear that this form of Missal can not be used. Is there anyone who can tell me why something (include the Mass of Paul VI as well) masterminded by someone whose soul intent was the destruction of the Church that Christ began is accepted by Traditional Catholics anywhere? To me it is the same concept as baking a batch of brownies and adding a little something from the litter box and saying that it is safe to eat. No it is not and the 1962 Missal is not safe for our soul. I have read where it is compable to the offering made by Cain and we all know where that led. Why would anyone be associated with this?


    Offline Kephapaulos

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    The '62 Missal
    « Reply #2 on: September 25, 2007, 11:22:36 AM »
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  • I have wondered about the issue too, Dawn, but Popes have made slight changes to the Missal even since Quo Primum. Correct me if I am wrong, but mostly I think there had been changes to the calendar and rubrics. As long as the essentials of the rite are not put in jeopardy, then the rite is still intact and can be called the same rite, whereas in the case of the Novus Ordo Missae there is a different rite essentially.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

    Offline Dawn

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    The '62 Missal
    « Reply #3 on: September 25, 2007, 03:59:23 PM »
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  • Offline gilbertgea

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    The '62 Missal
    « Reply #4 on: October 07, 2007, 11:26:37 AM »
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  • "No it is not and the 1962 Missal is not safe for our soul."

    Based on what information?  What is your expertise in the matter of determining which Missal is safe for one's soul and which one is not?

    This is exactly why Our Lord established His Church: because we as individuals do not possess the competence -- or the right -- to determine these things on our own.

    Unfortunately, the Church is in a state of chaos and the only organised entity therein is the SSPX which *does* possess the competence and the right to determine such matters.  Their competence cannot be doubted; you can argue about their right all you like.

    The point is that the largest, most well-organised, and most consistent traditionalist organisation (from which nearly all traditionalist organisations have sprung) uses the 1962 Missal.  If you know better than they do, let's hear and objective proof as to why anyone should believe you.


    Offline dust-7

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    The '62 Missal
    « Reply #5 on: October 07, 2007, 12:44:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: gilbertgea
    "No it is not and the 1962 Missal is not safe for our soul."

    Based on what information?  What is your expertise in the matter of determining which Missal is safe for one's soul and which one is not?

    This is exactly why Our Lord established His Church: because we as individuals do not possess the competence -- or the right -- to determine these things on our own.


    Not speaking for anyone else in this thread, but my own answer is that obviously there is reason to object to the revisions made by Pius XII's 'reform' agency, steered by our old friend, the freemason - Bugnini (the 'g' is silent).

    Some, like Coomaraswamy, objected early on. I don't know that those like Hildebrand, Davies, and others who are known to have objected to the new Roman Protestantism, later on and as many now refer to it, were so vocal, nor Fulton Sheen, who was so prominent, nor many others. That doesn't mean they didn't object, as well, but I can't recall that they did.

    It was an effort, as people say, by Bugnini to see what he and the Modernists could slip through without objection. Many changes had been made in the 1950s, and then carried forward to the changes made in 1962.

    Quote from: gilbertgea

    The point is that the largest, most well-organised, and most consistent traditionalist organisation (from which nearly all traditionalist organisations have sprung) uses the 1962 Missal.


    And they also confess the Roman Protestant version of Canon Law, contrary to a tradition of Canon Law stretching back almost two millenia. Even contact with the corrupt Roman Protestant breeds corruption of ones own. One cannot try to 'make nice', or else be destroyed. The Fellayist faction make it clear that Lefebvre was torn on these issues, and so the SSPX is torn between those considering the Pope a fraud, and those who prefer to continue 'resisting to the face'. There will have to be a shakeout, as I've said here, previously. It would be to the benefit of all, and would make the SSPX categorically Catholic, faithful and orthodox, as those preferring the 1962, and the 1983 Canon Law, and all the rest of Roman Protestantism will follow Fellay and his clique and will embrace heresy and apostacy almost entirely, I would think, as apparently was done in Campos.

    You have to remember that, in the distant past, Catholics stood against clerics who claimed to be Catholic but who had lost the Faith or were preaching another. You know of St. Athanasius, who ultimately triumphed because God wished His Church to triumph. That was also a time of Emperors exercising control over eastern and western churches. Athanasius was persecuted. But others less known were persecuted, exiled or jailed - and that was it, until a new Emperor might come along. They stood heroically for the Faith, rather than just 'go along'. It's the very example of Christ, His example for us, for true and faithful Catholics. You might reply that the 'resist to your face' stuff is precisely that, refusing to simply 'go along'. But it's not complete. It a half-way approach, particularly as they wish to reconcile, or at least Fellay does, with the phony sect that has seized what properly belongs to Catholics.

    Offline Dawn

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    The '62 Missal
    « Reply #6 on: October 07, 2007, 03:23:57 PM »
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  • Dust-7 that is my point exactly. How ready they are to tell me that every single thing the son of Satan (he was a Mason after all, whose only purpose in life was destruction of the True Church) was evil, oh, except this one thing well that is not only good but we accept and promote it. No, it can not be. A spoonful of sugar helps the poison go down and in this case everyone has no trouble swallowing. And as for all that, if we can ask ourselves what is the Pope thinking when he says that I can certainly ask myself what a Bishop is doing as in those in the SSPX. Do not forget, though I know people will race to the board saying, "Well he really did not mean it that way" But the truth is that the late Archbishop Lefebvre ,of saintly memory, called them exactlyl what they were ANTICHRIST.

    In the words of Dirty Harry, Do you feel lucky today? Just how much poison will you take?

    Offline Kephapaulos

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    The '62 Missal
    « Reply #7 on: November 08, 2007, 07:19:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn
    http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f015ht_Pamela-Missal.htm
    http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f014ht_MissalCrisis_Perez.htm

    Kepha check this site out for starts see what you think Please let me know


    Don't worry, Dawn, I remembered this thread, and I did read those two articles.

    I understand the concern about changing the liturgy, but it is going a little too far to judge authority that stayed still within the proper bounds of liturgical reform. Imagine some here would disagree though.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)


    Offline Kephapaulos

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    The '62 Missal
    « Reply #8 on: November 08, 2007, 07:21:09 PM »
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  • Here is a link to a video from Fr. Cooper's (SSPX) talk on the Mass:

    http://www.traditionalcatholicmedia.com/flash/FrCooperLatinMass/frcooper9_300k.html

    Fr. Cooper talks for some time in the video about the addition of St. Joseph's name in the Canon.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

    Offline Kephapaulos

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    The '62 Missal
    « Reply #9 on: November 09, 2007, 03:16:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Kephapaulos
    Quote from: Dawn
    http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f015ht_Pamela-Missal.htm
    http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f014ht_MissalCrisis_Perez.htm

    Kepha check this site out for starts see what you think Please let me know


    Don't worry, Dawn, I remembered this thread, and I did read those two articles.

    I understand the concern about changing the liturgy, but it is going a little too far to judge authority that stayed still within the proper bounds of liturgical reform. I imagine some here would disagree though.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)