Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Talking in church  (Read 2853 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Vladimir

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1707
  • Reputation: +496/-1
  • Gender: Male
Talking in church
« on: May 08, 2011, 12:54:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • How does one deal with other people nearby talking throughout Holy Mass?
    Today there was a special mass and, as usual, a considerable number of people that came to the Latin mass for the first time.

    It was a beautiful mass, but right behind me was a row of Mexican (surprise surprise) girls/young women that literally talked throughout the entire mass! I couldn't believe it. Before mass started one of them was even talking on her cell phone right in the pew (I could understand a little bit since she was giving directions to the others on how to get to the church, but still, you would think she would have the common sense to go outside). Then even worse, some of the younger ones were even MOCKING the prayers of the mass (for example making fun of the polyphony and the Dominus vobiscuм/et cuм spiritu tuo, etc by laughing and singing nonsense syllables).

    What does one do in cases like this? I turned my head around to look at them out of the corner of my eye a few times, and one of the older girls told the younger ones to shut up, but that only worked for a few minutes. I felt myself starting to fume up but then I just let it go and said a prayer for them.

    Is it OK to actually turn around and ask them politely something like "Do you have no respect for Christ and the Blessed Virgin" or "Please be quiet"? Or should this just be an opportunity for mortification?

    EDIT: There was at least 1 middle aged woman in their group, the rest were probably in the teens and twenties. So much for the idea that Mexicans are pious Catholics.




    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #1 on: May 08, 2011, 01:05:25 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Vladimir
    So much for the idea that Mexicans are pious Catholics.


    Many foolish "conservative" Catholics think that Latin Americans are far more Catholic than they are.  While we shouldn't doubt there are many devout Catholics from Latin America, when we look at the history of the masonic states there, and now the recent history of left-wing "Catholicism" and the rise of Protestantism in Latin America - American Catholics need to learn to be realistic and not be snookered by anti-Christians using Catholic support of the migration of Latins for their political advantage.



    Offline LordPhan

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1171
    • Reputation: +826/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #2 on: May 08, 2011, 04:02:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • They should have been thrown out. Then reprimanded and offered a second chance if they are respectful when being reprimanded.


    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5106
    • Reputation: +3896/-48
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #3 on: May 08, 2011, 08:39:16 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Vladimir
    It was a beautiful mass, but right behind me was a row of Mexican (surprise surprise) girls/young women

    Quote

     So much for the idea that Mexicans are pious Catholics.


    First of all what these young women / girls did was ultra disrespectful. I would have gotten up at an appropriate time and told them to shut the hell-o up.

    But I will hone in on the "mexican" comment. I've seen both mexicans and whites and blacks (yes we actually have some attend mass in so cal) all participate in disrespectfulness during mass. From your beginning words ("surprise surprise") it doesn't seem like you ever believed that "Mexicans are pious Catholics" anyhow...?

    To address the issue further, yes the younger generation has lost much of the sincerity of the last generation (pre 60s for sure), and especially when they come to this country. Lets just pray that they at least (in my experience anyways) have some notion of respect for Catholicism as opposed to the majority of other groups migrating to the us. I'm sure it'd be easier to convert a non-pious Mexican than it would be a Dutch, German, or Chinese immigrant, imo. Perhaps a talk after mass about how grave their disrespect was would have helped.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8212
    • Reputation: +7173/-7
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #4 on: May 08, 2011, 03:47:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That's the way it was whenever I attended the Novus Ordo growing up. People were always running their mouths (particularly kids and teens). And when the gypsies walked in, they'd start talking on their cell phones. It's not very common to come across such people at a Traditional Latin Mass. Who was celebrating the Mass you attended? If it was a Diocesian Mass, then that probably explains it.

    I've never been to a TLM where people acted in such a way (I went to a Diocesian Mass once, the people were actually pretty quiet, although some weren't dressed properly). I'd bring them to the parish priest's attention, especially since they were mocking prayers. That is not acceptable at Church.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Vladimir

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1707
    • Reputation: +496/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #5 on: May 08, 2011, 11:31:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It was by FSSP priests, but as I said, it was a special occassion that received much publicity around the area (among Catholics in that city at least). The mass was not said at the usual parish but in the cathedral. The Mexicans in question were first timers. You could tell by their behaviour and immodest dress (short shorts/tight shirts or tight pants and tight shirts).

    Btw, there was a black woman kneeling and praying the rosary with her two children.

    A large number of Chinese people are actually Protestant -- not Buddhist. If you spoke fluent Mandarin or Cantonese I would almost think that a Chinese person would be easier to convert than a deeply Protestant Mexican. I would also say that the average Chinese immigrant has more intellectual capability than their Mexican counterpart. That probably has something to do with it.


    EDIT:

    And about the "teens and kids" thing - I would say that over/around 50% of the regular parishioners at that FSSP parish are around the same age as those Mexican girls and you can literally hear a pin drop in the church before, during, and after Mass (I've actually heard one fall, that's how a I know).




    Offline Raoul76

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4803
    • Reputation: +2007/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #6 on: May 09, 2011, 01:19:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Asians have immense intellectual capacity, as well as a decent comprehension of the natural law in many cases, and that is why they are so hard to convert.  It is like trying to convert those in Vatican II.  Because they already feel they are moral and good, they don't think they need to change.
    They lack the spirit of submission.  They look obedient and meek, but there is a secret pride.  

    Mexicans are not intellectual giants quite as often, to put it diplomatically, but they are hard workers and humble, that is why so many of them gravitate towards Catholicism.  They are like natural-born St. Josephs.  

    Vatican II has brought out the worst in all nations.  The Mexicans that used to be humble have had their "inner Aztec" unleashed, they now prefer these Novus Ordo masses that smack of voodoo and barrio block parties.  Where are the little old ladies with their Rosaries now?  

    But it shows you how deeply-rooted Catholicism is with Mexicans, that they have made an unofficial "saint" out of a drug-runner.  I can't remember his name, but there is a Robin Hood figure in current Mexican folklore who is the patron saint of thieves and drug-runners, sort of a Che Guevera type, they get him tattooed on themselves as if he were Jesus.  It shows a religious impulse, but badly misdirected.  Yet what other nation even shows such an impulse?  

    The Mexicans are simple, warm people, but they need to be led and guided by Europeans, not necessarily in terms of being colonized, just in terms of learning from them.  Without that guidance, they descend into superstition, which then passes itself off as the true religion.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Raoul76

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4803
    • Reputation: +2007/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #7 on: May 09, 2011, 01:29:33 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Despite what politically-correct rhetoric of the 20th century would tell you, Catholic Europe needs to rule the world, that is the way God designed it, that is the order of things that must be respected.  

    History has proven it, we have seen what happened when the Spanish colonized America -- they did not behave perfectly, but many, many heathens were converted -- while our modern day democracies have done nothing but destabilize and render miserable the nations we've invaded in Africa.  It's a striking parallel, it vividly shows the difference between a fruitful and a destructive colonization.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3746
    • Reputation: +4806/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #8 on: May 09, 2011, 08:57:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Raoul76
    The Mexicans are simple, warm people, but they need to be led and guided by Europeans, not necessarily in terms of being colonized, just in terms of learning from them.  Without that guidance, they descend into superstition, which then passes itself off as the true religion.


    Without necessarily agreeing to such sweeping ethnographic generalizations, I am glad that your subsequent post clarified the fact that Catholic Europe ought to maintain its central cultural and religious place it once had in Latin America.

    However, just as Catholic Europe converted the heathen indigenous peoples of the Americas, so was Latin America perverted by a Europe completely given over to the meretricious and autolatrous abominations of the "Enlightenment," the French Revolution, and ʝʊdɛօ-Masonry, together with the crass materialism and naturalism concomitant with the Industrial Revolution.

    Now Europe has completely apostatized from the faith (at least insofar as government and popular culture are concerned) and is becoming outnumbered by Islamists, and Mexico has become a land tyrannized by systematic bureaucratic corruption and organized crime, and has fallen prey to the grossest forms of idolatry.

    An example of the latter (which I myself have seen) is to be found in the cult of "the Holy Death," "la Santa Muerte." A female skeleton figure is literally dressed up and adorned like a Pilgrim Virgin Statue and rendered all sorts of honors and even the Rosary is prayed. Children are consecrated to it, and people pay cult to it and offer oblations before it. It is propagated mostly by people involved in organized crime and those who practice similar superstitions. It is truly disgusting.

    I have heard some speak of the belief there will come a point when the miraculous image of Our Lady of Guadalupe will one day disappear from Mexico City so that it shall no longer be profaned. Such a thing has happened, e.g., the Holy House of Loretto, and the miraculous image of Our Lady of Good Counsel.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline shin

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1671
    • Reputation: +854/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #9 on: May 09, 2011, 09:25:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Hobbledehoy

    I have heard some speak of the belief there will come a point when the miraculous image of Our Lady of Guadalupe will one day disappear from Mexico City so that it shall no longer be profaned. Such a thing has happened, e.g., the Holy House of Loretto, and the miraculous image of Our Lady of Good Counsel.


    I had not heard about the latter. Can you say a bit more about it?
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Offline Hobbledehoy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3746
    • Reputation: +4806/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #10 on: May 09, 2011, 10:06:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: shin
    I had not heard about the latter. Can you say a bit more about it?


    The miraculous image of Our Lady of Good Counsel was translated from Albania to Italy in a wondrous prodigy, so that the impious Mohammedans would not profane the sacred image.

    Here is a very good article on this subject:

    http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/a004rp.htm

    This is why some have taken Our Lady of Good Counsel as Protectress of Catholic Europe against the tyranny of the crescent moon. She will destroy the Islamists sooner or later in a triumphant victory as she did at Lepanto during the reign of Pope St. Pius V if only we faithfully persevere in the recitation of the Holy Rosary for the rehabilitation and conversion of the world.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline lefebvre_fan

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 458
    • Reputation: +234/-9
    • Gender: Male
    Talking in church
    « Reply #11 on: May 10, 2011, 07:44:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Maybe they saw an announcement in the church bulletin and said, "Hey, look! Latino mass! Sounds good!"  :laugh2:
    "The Catholic Church is the only thing which saves a man from the degrading slavery of being a child of his age."--G. K. Chesterton