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Author Topic: Switch to the Angelus  (Read 1832 times)

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Re: Switch to the Angelus
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2026, 06:07:20 PM »
Never thought for a minute any part of your post was rude.

 Thankfully Latin is the unchangeable language of the Church for all places and times. I have, though, seen priests even tell the faithful to maintain good local customs where the rubrics are not explicit.
The operative words are, "are not explicit".
I guess I've experienced lately a lot of traditional Catholics trying to "one-up" each other by acting like "Im more traditional because I observe X,Y,Z" or a tendency to go further and further back in church history for a more authentic Catholicism, which I believe can also be a pitfall. 
If you think it's bad now you should have been around in '69 and the early '70's.  People were at a point where you couldn't get a civil word out of them.  Most were trying to hang on as if they were in a sinking ship (which they were), looking for the leader they'd followed five years earlier who had abandoned them.  The rest of the people followed like lemmings.  Eventually the lemmings won.

Try to understand the people who observe X,Y,&Z. don't just look at the way they come across.  They're just trying to undo some of the modernism most of which is only about 200 or so years old.  Most modernism is not technically wrong...it's just not specific and in most cases it diminishes the whole intent of the word or exercise.  A perfect example is the Our Father.  In Latin we pray "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors" whereas in English we pray "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"  Well debt in latin is debita and trespass is delictum .  Two different meanings.  Now it could be argued that, I can get my trespasses (sins) forgiven in confession but I need to pray God forgives my debt still owed which I may have to satisfy for in purgatory.  So how do we know which is correct?  Both the Catholic and Protestant bibles in English say debt.  English Protestants kept debt,  when and why did Catholics change it to trespass?


(for example, I've been at several different traditional Catholic schools since my youth and we always said the Angelus standing just before grace before meals (genuflecting at "And the Word became flesh..") I just assumed it was the American custom)
I'm guessing, but, as the Regina Caeli is prayed standing and the Angelus is prayed standing on Saturday and Sunday people just got lazy and kept standing throughout the weekdays.  In grade school we prayed the Angelus before leaving for lunch on our knees so the change must have come around the time between the mid 50's and Vat II.  Although we didn't have the net back then all it took was one bishop or priest to print some error in a book and it spread like wildfire.

Re: Switch to the Angelus
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2026, 05:21:17 AM »
Never thought for a minute any part of your post was rude.
The operative words are, "are not explicit".If you think it's bad now you should have been around in '69 and the early '70's.  People were at a point where you couldn't get a civil word out of them.  Most were trying to hang on as if they were in a sinking ship (which they were), looking for the leader they'd followed five years earlier who had abandoned them.  The rest of the people followed like lemmings.  Eventually the lemmings won.

Try to understand the people who observe X,Y,&Z. don't just look at the way they come across.  They're just trying to undo some of the modernism most of which is only about 200 or so years old.  Most modernism is not technically wrong...it's just not specific and in most cases it diminishes the whole intent of the word or exercise.  A perfect example is the Our Father.  In Latin we pray "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors" whereas in English we pray "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"  Well debt in latin is debita and trespass is delictum .  Two different meanings.  Now it could be argued that, I can get my trespasses (sins) forgiven in confession but I need to pray God forgives my debt still owed which I may have to satisfy for in purgatory.  So how do we know which is correct?  Both the Catholic and Protestant bibles in English say debt.  English Protestants kept debt,  when and why did Catholics change it to trespass?
I'm guessing, but, as the Regina Caeli is prayed standing and the Angelus is prayed standing on Saturday and Sunday people just got lazy and kept standing throughout the weekdays.  In grade school we prayed the Angelus before leaving for lunch on our knees so the change must have come around the time between the mid 50's and Vat II.  Although we didn't have the net back then all it took was one bishop or priest to print some error in a book and it spread like wildfire.
Many good points.  Thank you for sharing your experiences.  🥰


Offline DirigeNos

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Re: Switch to the Angelus
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2026, 07:03:58 AM »
Yes, thank you for sharing. I didn't live through the VII changes in the church, and I admit there is a big difference between my generation and others in the way we view things. (there is even a big difference between mine and GenZ, GenAlpha). I respect those who took up the fight for the faith going back to the 1960s/70s. We know that VII was not a sudden surprise, but that the spirit grew in former decades as the church tried more and more to conform with the world. Catholics were ripe for the changes because their minds had already lost a Catholic sense. One must realize that the freemasons were in the church even in the 19th century, and by the time of St. Pius X, they were already pushing their own right up to the highest positions. When I read a book written in the 50s, (even a book from a Trad publisher), sometimes I cringe because there is this "50s-ism" spirit, and I thrift it. Modernism is like a virus that spreads.