Author Topic: St. Margaret Mary...was she really a saint? (Read 3086 times)

Matthew · « **on:** June 11, 2009, 10:08:59 AM »

Um...good for you. Actually, it's not good for you, or anyone else.

Your comments sound like a typical modern unbeliever "filled with self-hate", etc. That would be a non-Catholics take on heroic humility shown by many saints. And you even try to credit "psychic abilities" when you see the case of a miracle!

If the Church (pre-Vatican II) declared someone a saint, you must assent to it.

You're a small step away from leaving the Catholic Faith altogether if you are that headstrong and independent vis-a-vis the Church.

Matthew

sedetrad · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2009, 10:15:20 AM »

Chant is quite correct on this one.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2009, 01:00:48 PM »

So we're more enlightened now, compared to those darn "middle ages"?

Yeah, I know -- back then, they actually believed in the DEVIL and had *gasp* exorcists whose sole job was to fight the devil and expel him from poor possessed people. But we know those people were just mentally ill, and modern, enlightened man would just give him prozac and lock him up in a rubber room.

Of course that's ridiculous -- in fact, many "mentally ill" people today need an exorcist more than drugs or mental institutions.

Your line of reasoning sounds like post-Vatican II speak to me -- not something I'd expect from a Trad.

And you think it's so simple "She was mentally ill -- all her revelations were in private -- like, come ON! Hello!"

...but don't you think the Church knew the nature of her revelations? Why not trust the judgement of the Church?

Matthew

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2009, 01:17:13 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

So we're more enlightened now, compared to those darn "middle ages"?

Yeah, I know -- back then, they actually believed in the DEVIL and had *gasp* exorcists whose sole job was to fight the devil and expel him from poor possessed people. But we know those people were just mentally ill, and modern, enlightened man would just give him prozac and lock him up in a rubber room.

Of course that's ridiculous -- in fact, many "mentally ill" people today need an exorcist more than drugs or mental institutions.

Your line of reasoning sounds like post-Vatican II speak to me -- not something I'd expect from a Trad.

And you think it's so simple "She was mentally ill -- all her revelations were in private -- like, come ON! Hello!"

...but don't you think the Church knew the nature of her revelations? Why not trust the judgement of the Church?

Matthew

Saint Margaret Mary was the one that told the King of France to consecrate France to the Sacred Heart, and that the very PERSON of the King would be protected by Angels, against ALL enemies, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE.

He didn't do it, and we know what happened to his grandson, Louis XVI.

Imagine what the world would have looked like NOW if he'd only listened.

Sorta like what the world might look like NOW if the Pope had actually consecrated Russia.

Alex · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2009, 09:21:54 PM »

Which book is it you read and who said she suffered from mental problems?

Alex · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2009, 02:35:05 AM »

Quote from: Uriel

http://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/134/

Can you give an example from the book that says how she suffered from mental problems? Or is it just your own personal prognosis from reading something in the book that gave you the idea that she had mental problems.

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2009, 09:31:19 AM »

If anyone wants to go out and buy this book, please buy it through ChantCd.com (the price is the same):

https://www.chantcd.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/134/

Elizabeth · « **Reply #7 on:** July 03, 2009, 09:59:23 PM »

Well why leave St. Francis out of it? He was really into fires, and he talked to animals and apparently loved it when people were horrible toward him.

Isn't Uriel the name of a fallen angel? I seem to recall...

Elizabeth · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2009, 09:15:44 AM »

The Credo includes this:

'We believe in the communion of saints'

You need to submit to the Church by believeing in Her saints.

You do not get to make up how to be Catholic as you go along.

Do you go to Mass and take Communion?

Matthew · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2009, 09:22:26 AM »

Quote from: Uriel

Quote from: Elizabeth
Well why leave St. Francis out of it? He was really into fires, and he talked to animals and apparently loved it when people were horrible toward him.

Isn't Uriel the name of a fallen angel? I seem to recall...

Just a matter of faith...no one alive knows for sure what is and what is not the 'real' truth.

What are you, a modernist?

We believe in objective truth, and the ability of the human mind to seize upon the truth, around here.

Faith is about the truth -- objective truth that is true for everyone. It's not about feelings or what fits me.

Matthew

Elizabeth · « **Reply #10 on:** July 04, 2009, 11:09:42 AM »

Oops, I did a poor job of trying to compare Uriel's opinion of St. Margaret Mary being mentally ill with St. Francis.

I was trying to say that if you think St. Margaret Mary is crazy and not a Saint for all eternity, if you think you don't need to believe in the Saints, then for "crazy" by Worldly standards will describe St. Francis.

St. Margaret Mary, pray for us.

Alex · « **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2009, 03:51:00 PM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

Well why leave St. Francis out of it? He was really into fires, and he talked to animals and apparently loved it when people were horrible toward him.

Isn't Uriel the name of a fallen angel? I seem to recall...

The archangel Uriel is NOT mentioned in the Catholic Bible. He is mentioned in the Apocryphal Jєωιѕн books, such as the Book of Enoch and Books of Esdras.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2009, 05:03:50 PM »

1 and 2 Esdras are in the Catholic canon of the Bible.

Enoch is not.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2009, 02:41:45 AM »

There is a real issue here. I will make use of an analogy:

When someone wants to preach about marriage, he doesn't speak about it's hard side: washing tones of dishes, chance of being a widow(er), chance of losing a child, doing laundry, quarreling etc. etc. He just speaks about romance, love and perfumed red roses. in order to attract you to this sacrament. IT IS ALSO THE CASE WITH OUR FAITH:

Our Holy Religion, specially it's mystical/ascetical aspect may be scandalous and shocking to many people, it is why many preachers do their best to hide these aspects. Lest men should be shocked.

Once I posted some thing on this forum about St. Ludwina's actions. People told me that it was wrong and a malarkey. However that incident was recorded in her biography.

Predestination and repobration too, are matters of faith. Yet I saw that priests are tend to avoid answering people's question about repobration. They are good willed, they are afraid lest someone succombe to despair and defidence after hearing about it.

Saints have done many things that we may call crazy. Some of them used an erotic language when speaking about our Lord, though you may think it blasphemous. Some of them really acted like a puritan, hating the world their body and avoiding any pleasure.

When catholic pastors avoid talking about this matters, they are just giving an apportunity to atheists to say :" Look the church is hiding this from you" ," come and see what they are hidding from you for 2000 years."

It is like what I said about marriage.

If you want to attract people to any thing, don't speak about it's hard to accept aspects!

Dylan · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2009, 06:01:15 AM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

1 and 2 Esdras are in the Catholic canon of the Bible.

Enoch is not.

That's true. 1 and 2 Esdras, though, have been renamed in the English-speaking world as Ezra and Nehemiah. I believe that the books that Alex is referring to are commonly referred to as 1 and 2 Esdras as well, but are also called 3 and 4 Esdras or Ezra.