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Author Topic: St. Josephs body  (Read 6371 times)

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Offline Matto

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St. Josephs body
« on: August 20, 2016, 03:52:00 PM »
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  • Does the Church teach that Saint Joseph's body was assumed into heaven like Mary's? I have heard from some Catholics that is was. For example, in this article. But I was just reading the Baltimore Catechism No. 3 and it says: "Our Divine Lord and His blessed Mother are the only persons whose bodies are now in heaven."  So which is right?
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #1 on: August 20, 2016, 04:44:48 PM »
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  • Was St Joseph when he died was assumed into Heaven body and soul? The
    Church does not teach this.

    The Baltimore Catechism is correct.  This was the Catechism used when I
    attended Parochial School.

    http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2011-0315-st-joseph.htm

    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=188581


    Offline MarylandTrad

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #2 on: August 21, 2016, 05:21:34 PM »
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  • Arguments in favor of the Assumption of St Joseph

    - St. Bernadine of Siena, St. Francis de Sales, and St. Leonard of Port Maurice all preached very strongly in support of the Assumption of St. Joseph. Suarez wrote that the Assumption of St. Joseph is a "sufficiently received belief."

    - "God Himself seems to have authorized the belief by a striking miracle; for when St. Bernardine of Siena, preaching in Padua, declared that the body and soul of Joseph were both glorified in Heaven, a rich cross of gold was seen to shine over the head of the preacher, proving to the very eyes of those who surrounded him the truth which he was conveying to their ears."

    - "Had this venerable body been left on earth, God would never have allowed it to remain concealed, and thus to be deprived of the honour given to the relics of saints much inferior to him. Ecclesiastical history frequently alludes to miracles which it pleased the Lord to work in order to the discovery of the precious remains of many of His servants, that men might render them due veneration, transport them to their churches, place them under their altars, and honour them with religious cultus.  But of Joseph nothing remains save the ring he placed on Mary's finger on the day of their espousals, for the possession of which two cities have contended, and a few fragments of his garments, to which pious homage is still paid."

    -"...And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose, and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, came into the Holy City and appeared to many." (St. Matt. 27:52,53). "It is of faith that many bodies of the saints arose with the Incarnate Word, and that they appeared to numbers of persons in Jerusalem, giving them undoubted proofs that they were truly risen. Moreover, it is the opinion of St. Thomas and of well-nigh all the Doctors that these saints were not subject to death any more, but, after having for some time communicated on earth with the disciples of the Son of God, they, when the forty days were expired, followed Him in His Ascension to render His entrance into Heaven still more brilliant and glorious."

    - America's greatest theologian, Fr. Feeney, wrote the following defense of the Assumption of St. Joseph in Bread of Life: "How do we know, in loving Christian faith, that Saint Joseph's body is in Heaven? Well, because he and Jesus and Mary make up the Holy Family. Just imagine the Holy Family in Heaven, with one body missing! When we pray for a happy death, we pray to Jesus, Mary and Joseph to be with us in our last agony. Just imagine you and I having bodies in our last agony, and Mary and Jesus having bodies and being able to be with us, and Saint Joseph alone left in the order of sheer soul!"

    Arguments against the Assumption of St. Joseph

    - The Baltimore Catechism, written by bishops under the influence of James Cardinal Gibbons, a man who was known to "preach" in Masonic temples using Protestant Bibles and who was known to steadfastly oppose any papal condemnations of American Masonry, appears to teach against it.
    "The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a man who thinks other people can get along without It. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who thinks he needs It but someone else does not. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who offers others any charity ahead of this Charity of the Bread of Life." -Fr. Leonard Feeney, Bread of Life

    Offline Matto

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #3 on: August 21, 2016, 05:28:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: MarylandTrad
    - The Baltimore Catechism, written by bishops under the influence of James Cardinal Gibbons, a man who was known to "preach" in Masonic temples using Protestant Bibles and who was known to steadfastly oppose any papal condemnations of American Masonry, appears to teach against it.

    So you don't like the Baltimore Catechism? When I became a traditional Catholic a few years ago the Baltimore Catechism was recommended across the board so I followed that advice and bought it. And I am reading it again now. Which Catechism should I use then to learn the faith if the Baltimore Catechism is suspect?
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Miseremini

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #4 on: August 21, 2016, 07:23:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: MarylandTrad
    Just imagine you and I having bodies in our last agony, and Mary and Jesus having bodies and being able to be with us, and Saint Joseph alone left in the order of sheer soul!"



    Whenever Jesus, Mary and Joseph or any saint appear to us on earth they appear to have bodies, including the saints who were NOT assumed. This is so we can identify them.
    At our last agony if they appear, it may seem to us they have bodies but no one else in the room will see them in the flesh.

    It is reasonable that Jesus and Mary were assumed bodily into heaven because both were born without original sin therefore not condemned to die and have their bodies return to the earth.

    Does anyone know of any saint born with original sin who was assumed into heaven?
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline MarylandTrad

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 08:14:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: MarylandTrad
    - The Baltimore Catechism, written by bishops under the influence of James Cardinal Gibbons, a man who was known to "preach" in Masonic temples using Protestant Bibles and who was known to steadfastly oppose any papal condemnations of American Masonry, appears to teach against it.

    So you don't like the Baltimore Catechism? When I became a traditional Catholic a few years ago the Baltimore Catechism was recommended across the board so I followed that advice and bought it. And I am reading it again now. Which Catechism should I use then to learn the faith if the Baltimore Catechism is suspect?


    I included the information about Cardinal Gibbons in my post to emphasize the unreasonableness of disregarding the teaching of several saints and a doctor of the Church about the bodily assumption of St. Joseph simply because a catechism written by men much less holy and learned teaches something contrary. Who is the greater authority, St. Francis de Sales or Cardinal Gibbons and other American(ist) clergy?

    That said, I do not think that teaching that Our Lord and the Blessed Virgin are the only souls in heaven with bodies necessarily makes a catechism "suspect." The bodily assumption of St. Joseph is not a dogma and one is not a heretic for disbelieving in it.

    I do think that some editions of the Baltimore Catechism explain the dogma "outside the Church there is no salvation" in a heretical sense different from the sense in which the dogma has been infallibly defined. This is a big deal and most unfortunate. Even this though does not necessarily mean that traditional Catholics cannot read the Catechism without profit. I know friends of the doctrinal crusade of the St. Benedict Center who still use various editions of the Baltimore Catechism and just qualify any of the possible weak points with what the Church has taught in her highest authority.

    Another criticism of the Baltimore Catechism that I think is worth taking into consideration is Fr. Wathen's critique of how the Catechism undermines moral responsibility by teaching, without any qualifications, that "sufficient reflection" is necessary to make a sin mortal. I recognize that this teaching is not unique to the Baltimore Catechism and that it is a true teaching if understood in a certain sense, but in the liberal climate we live in it absolutely needs to be qualified and the Baltimore Catechism fails to include the necessary qualifications. I would not say that this omission makes the Catechism "suspect," but I do think that it is worth attempting to understand the critique Fr. Wathen wrote in Who Shall Ascend.

    "The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a man who thinks other people can get along without It. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who thinks he needs It but someone else does not. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who offers others any charity ahead of this Charity of the Bread of Life." -Fr. Leonard Feeney, Bread of Life

    Offline Matto

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 08:27:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: MarylandTrad
    Who is the greater authority, St. Francis de Sales or Cardinal Gibbons and other American(ist) clergy?

    . . . I would not say that this omission makes the Catechism "suspect," but I do think that it is worth attempting to understand the critique Fr. Wathen wrote in Who Shall Ascend.



    Good question. I don't know what has greater weight, the opinion of a great saint or an official Catechism approved of by the Church and used to teach the faith to millions of Catholics. And about Who Shall Ascend, I read it years ago but I forgot everything about it. I may read it again now that you reminded me of it.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Online Ladislaus

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #7 on: August 22, 2016, 11:34:25 AM »
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  • Has the burial place of St. Joseph ever been located?  Do we have any of his bones as relics?

    I personally believe that his body was raised from the dead, assumed into heaven, and united with his soul at some point after the Assumption of Our Lady.


    Offline Stubborn

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #8 on: August 22, 2016, 12:07:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Miseremini
    Quote from: MarylandTrad
    Just imagine you and I having bodies in our last agony, and Mary and Jesus having bodies and being able to be with us, and Saint Joseph alone left in the order of sheer soul!"



    Whenever Jesus, Mary and Joseph or any saint appear to us on earth they appear to have bodies, including the saints who were NOT assumed. This is so we can identify them.
    At our last agony if they appear, it may seem to us they have bodies but no one else in the room will see them in the flesh.

    It is reasonable that Jesus and Mary were assumed bodily into heaven because both were born without original sin therefore not condemned to die and have their bodies return to the earth.

    Does anyone know of any saint born with original sin who was assumed into heaven?


    According to Venerable Mary of Agreda's City of God, Vol 3, Ch 16, St. Joseph, like St. John the Baptist, was born without Original Sin.......St. Joseph "was sanctified in the womb of his mother seven months after his conception, and the leaven of sin was destroyed in him for the whole course of his life, never having felt any impure or disorderly movement."

    According to the City of God, St. Joseph died and went to Limbo, there is no mention of him being assumed into heaven body and soul.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ascetik

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #9 on: August 22, 2016, 09:02:24 PM »
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  • Quote
    Does anyone know of any saint born with original sin who was assumed into heaven?


    Saint Elijah

    Offline poche

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    St. Josephs body
    « Reply #10 on: August 22, 2016, 11:14:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ascetik
    Quote
    Does anyone know of any saint born with original sin who was assumed into heaven?


    Saint Elijah


    Enoch