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Author Topic: St. Joseph in the Canon?  (Read 496 times)

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Offline Cryptinox

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St. Joseph in the Canon?
« on: May 17, 2021, 09:24:27 PM »
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    • So I have SSPX about 20 miles away. However, the only thing holding me back from attending is the addition to St. Joseph in the canon which would be illicit if John XXIII was not a pope and I have positive doubt about John XXIII's legitimacy. Can an illicit mass fulfill Sunday obligation? I remember reading on a novus ordo site that an illicit mass can sometimes fulfill your Sunday obligation (the case was a mass said without a Crucifix on the altar). I want to worship in the latin rite but I have eastern rites near me that don't have any illicit additions most of the time so I don't feel as well about going to SSPX. I want the discussion to be solely on whether it is lawful to attend 62 not the NO please it will elevate my scruples.
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon?
    « Reply #1 on: May 17, 2021, 09:51:36 PM »
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    • Like a number of things, the liceity of the 62 Missal will depend upon who you ask. The SSPX & Resistance of course consider it licit, Sedevacantists generally do not although they admit that it is valid (I'm sure there are exceptions, there always are).

    The above probably won't help your scruples, I'm afraid.

    My view is that, in this time, we are living in a spiritual desert. When in a desert you look for what is sufficient and don't waste it. The 62 is valid and so are SSPX ordained Priests. From your questions it is clear that you are trying to do the right thing and I honestly don't think that the Church or God will hold you guilty of any wrongdoing for attending it when you are uncomfortable attending other places.
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    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon?
    « Reply #2 on: May 17, 2021, 10:09:10 PM »
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    • I hate to "chime in" and give advice in such a murky area --- I have no doubts about the 1962 Missal's liceity, and no real reason to doubt the validity of John XXIII's papacy.  The addition of St Joseph to the Canon, I wouldn't have done it, but it was done, and I'm not going to go to the cross, to fight or argue against it.

    Why I'm even joining in the discussion, is that if you have scruples, and if you know you have scruples, it's not the best idea to be asking strangers online for advice.  I strongly recommend that you find a traditional priest you can trust, and do whatever he tells you.  Please quit trying to figure this out on your own.  I'm just concerned it won't end well, without direction from a priest.
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon?
    « Reply #3 on: May 17, 2021, 10:12:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on May 17, 2021, 10:09:10 PM
    Why I'm even joining in the discussion, is that if you have scruples, and if you know you have scruples, it's not the best idea to be asking strangers online for advice.  I strongly recommend that you find a traditional priest you can trust, and do whatever he tells you.  Please quit trying to figure this out on your own.  I'm just concerned it won't end well, without direction from a priest.
    Solid advice SM.
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    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon?
    « Reply #4 on: May 18, 2021, 04:12:02 PM »
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    • Just curious if others have heard this and, more importantly, if anyone has ever discovered a source for it: that either Pope Pius IX or Leo XIII said, when asked about putting St. Joseph in the Canon, that he didn't have the authority to do it. I think it is one of those two popes, but I could be wrong. I recall reading that in one of Father Paul Trinchard's books on the Latin Mass or what he called the "abomination of desolation," i.e., the New Mass. I could look up it but the point is not so much which pope allegedly said it but whether is was said by a pope, with some citation in support. 

    Father Trinchard, God bless his soul, often made statements in his books without footnoting or giving  a source.  
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon?
    « Reply #5 on: May 23, 2021, 11:45:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on May 18, 2021, 04:12:02 PM
    Just curious if others have heard this and, more importantly, if anyone has ever discovered a source for it: that either Pope Pius IX or Leo XIII said, when asked about putting St. Joseph in the Canon, that he didn't have the authority to do it. I think it is one of those two popes, but I could be wrong. I recall reading that in one of Father Paul Trinchard's books on the Latin Mass or what he called the "abomination of desolation," i.e., the New Mass. I could look up it but the point is not so much which pope allegedly said it but whether is was said by a pope, with some citation in support.

    Father Trinchard, God bless his soul, often made statements in his books without footnoting or giving  a source.  
    I've heard the same thing (pretty sure it was Leo XIII) but don't have a source either.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon?
    « Reply #6 on: May 24, 2021, 08:55:10 AM »
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    I have no doubts about the 1962 Missal's liceity, and no real reason to doubt the validity of John XXIII's papacy.  The addition of St Joseph to the Canon, I wouldn't have done it, but it was done, and I'm not going to go to the cross, to fight or argue against it.

    To further add to this complexity, the ORIGINAL 1962 missal did not add St Joseph to the canon.  This additional was only done months later, by a liturgical commission.  I know this for a fact because if you go try to order a 1962 missal, some places have the "original" edition or the "later" edition (without St Joseph).
    .
    As far as the sspx is concerned, I believe that +ABL told his priests to use the original, unaltered edition.  The sspx also kept the 2nd confiteor prayer.
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    Bottom line, Cryptinox:  Don't worry about it.  This is beyond your control.  Find a good, traditional priest and go.  Quit thinking.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon?
    « Reply #7 on: May 24, 2021, 09:03:59 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 24, 2021, 08:55:10 AM
    Bottom line, Cryptinox:  Don't worry about it.  This is beyond your control.  Find a good, traditional priest and go.  Quit thinking.

    This.

    You need to stop ignoring our advice to find a Trad priest you can trust, and place yourself under his obedience. You are clearly struggling with scruples.

    Just remember, God is love. God is goodness itself. God doesn't expect the impossible. He wants your salvation. He doesn't get some kind of twisted pleasure from sending souls to Hell. On the contrary, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity became man and died to redeem mankind -- and He would have done so for EACH ONE OF US if it had come to that.
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