CathInfo.com

Latin was not the first language used by Christians in the Mass.  Aramaic and many of the vernacular languages of the patristic church were used.  Greek, Hebrew, Arabic etc. were also used and replaced eventually with the Latin Mass.

Now, if the mass existed prior to the use of Latin (in which the use of Latin was greatly strengthened by the Council of Trent partly as a symbol of unity to counter the Protestant revolution) then it is reasonable to say that Latin is not necessary for the Mass, the mass does not need the language. What is the historical development that created Latin as an indispensable part of the mass...as if the language is a sacred element of the sacrifice...why has it become a necessity to the validity of any mass?

Many of the traditional catholic church traditions did not fall out of the sky, they were created through some very human process of adoption and sometimes appropriation of cultural symbols as Christianity progressed.

I know that much of the Latin traditions developed when the Constantine handed over many of the Roman empire buildings to the Church at the end of the empire's times.  And this process borrowed greatly from the Roman Empire.. I do believe many of the church's liturgy were invented or expressed at this time in history (around 3-400 AD)

Now, just because that cultural expression has become tradition, why are we limited to both Latin symbolism and Latin language arising from the Roman empire days?

Trickster

Bruce Ferguson

I apologize for calling you a troll. I still disagree with your post but I thought that I could be wrong and you might be in good faith and not a troll.

No problem Matto.  I have been involved in indigenous politics for 30 plus years and  so I have a good discipline in remaining objective and respectful while having to draw a line where people are disrespectful to me.  I am used to being called names and confronted in the political circles; I don't let it bother me as if I did I would become a nervous wrecked depressed person.  In CatholicInfo, the majority of people on this forum website are very respectful and very objective in stating their positions and disagreement with me.

I have done some theology and one of the areas I touched upon was the patristic church and how the Catholic community evolved.  I think the two components of the validity of the mass and the language used - and that did evolve into Latin - have their historic roots.   I think it is a logical and honest question to unpackage the notion that Latin is integrally part of the mass.

And disagree with my post, absolutely!  That is a good thing in my mind, I like conversation, of being challenged on my positions as that is the only way to learn.  You learn best, not from like minded people (although they can be supportive and gentle in their correction), but from people who disagree, as the first step to understanding a disagreement is to hear what the other person is saying first....so I do welcome your disagreements...and if I am lucky we will have many and then you will have to definitely be on my buddy list
 :boxer:

take care friend

Bruce

Latin is not intrinsic to our Catholic Faith.

The short version: your argument could be called a Straw Man.

Traditional Catholics worthy of the name -- those who know why they are trad (beyond mere emotion or nostalgia) -- are not driving 1 hour or more to get to Mass on Sunday so they can hear a particular language.

That would be a silly reason to stand aloof from the rest of the Church. It would be emotional, prejudice, and/or nostalgia and nothing more.

To paraphrase a neo-SSPX quote, if the only thing Vatican II did was release a new version of the Tridentine Mass -- nothing different, just translated into English -- Archbishop Lefebvre would never have started the SSPX.

It's true that putting the Sacred Liturgy into the vernacular is one element of the anti-liturgical heresy, but it's not the reason why we don't attend our local parishes of the Conciliar Catholic Church.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/The-Anti-Liturgical-Heresy

It's about the FAITH ITSELF, and the MASS which is the cornerstone of our Faith.

Thank you Matthew.  You make an awesome point and that is had Vatican II release a new version of the Tridentine Mass in English...that is extremely helpful in my understanding.  I have only heard the conversations based on the title of Latin Mass, so that is why I shared my understanding of the patristic church, etc.  

I'll give the anti-liturgical article a read and reflect more upon it..and get some reflection back to you for your thoughts.

Bruce