Author Topic: Role of Latin in the Liturgy (Read 3143 times)

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2014, 06:29:13 AM »

The Latin Mass makes The Church one, holy Catholic apostolic Church.

It used to be that you could go anywhere in the world and the
Mass would be the same.

Also, ask an exorcist priest: the devil hates Latin.

And one part of the Mass is Greek Kyrie Elesion.

trickster · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2014, 06:32:58 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Latin is not intrinsic to our Catholic Faith.

The short version: your argument could be called a Straw Man.

Traditional Catholics worthy of the name -- those who know why they are trad (beyond mere emotion or nostalgia) -- are not driving 1 hour or more to get to Mass on Sunday so they can hear a particular language.

That would be a silly reason to stand aloof from the rest of the Church. It would be emotional, prejudice, and/or nostalgia and nothing more.

To paraphrase a neo-SSPX quote, if the only thing Vatican II did was release a new version of the Tridentine Mass -- nothing different, just translated into English -- Archbishop Lefebvre would never have started the SSPX.

It's true that putting the Sacred Liturgy into the vernacular is one element of the anti-liturgical heresy, but it's not the reason why we don't attend our local parishes of the Conciliar Catholic Church.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/The-Anti-Liturgical-Heresy

It's about the FAITH ITSELF, and the MASS which is the cornerstone of our Faith.

Hello Matthew, just finished the 11 characteristics and possible strategies (possibly implemented on an inter-generational basis) of the anti-liturgical heresy. Noting that it was written in the early 1800's I found it to be very black and white assuming that modern day work is based on the same assumptions and objectives of the protestant movement in the 1500s. I also don't know what the Abbot's context was in terms of what he was responding to and/or what motivated to write about what he percieved as an anti-liturgical movement in his time and place.

Incredibly indepth article... i will do some more research on the points as well as come up with some reflections and possibly post in on my blog and hopefully we can go through some points there.

Bruce

TKGS · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2014, 07:47:33 AM »

People have told me that when the Novus Ordo was first introduced they thought it was essentially just a new, and official, translation of the Mass. I'm guessing these were individuals who didn't use a hand missal.

Truth be told, I prefer a conservative and rubricly correct Novus Ordo in English to the traditional Mass in Latin. Why? Because I don't have to pay attention all through Mass. My mind can wander and I can return instantly to the Mass without any thought whatsoever. But I am sane enough and intelligent enough to know that this preference comes from my propensity to sin and from deceits of Satan. If I believed God truly wanted me to go to Mass to be passively entertained (which is the essence of the vernacular Novus Ordo) I would go there. But I cannot believe that God desires passive worship. He wants us to actively unite our prayers with the prayers of the Mass and to work to be attentive and to worship Him.

While the Latin Language is not, as Matthew pointed out, intrinsic to the Catholic Faith, the Church showed great wisdom in making Latin the outward uniting force that would assist frail humans to truly worship God in both mind and spirit.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2014, 09:42:47 AM »

As an Old School Catholic going back way before Vatican 2 was ever
thought of. The Mass in Latin in the Traditional Rite I am closure
to God and the Angels. I never understood Latin except what I
have to know being an Altar Boy starting in 1957 and ending at
St. Dominic's Catholic Church in Washington, DC in the Dominican
Rite in 1969 when one sentence was allowed to be said in Latin
during the still Latin quit offertory prayers. I seen to remember
it was "Bene Dici Te" and translated to "Bless these Gifts".
When the Mass was beginning to be translated into English,
I first noticed the false translations in which lead myself and
others to question the Mass when it was unthinkable before.
Such as "All Men", which is actually true, but our Lord Jesus
Christ never said this at the last Supper. Other miss translations
that seen to blurred and questioned Catholic teachings. This is
when the big falling away begun.
As Sister explained in my early years, more grace in your soul,
more you understood the Mass. And, you do not have to be a
genius in the knowledge of the Latin Language. It comes to you
by the increase of sanctifying grace. And this is what the novus
ordo church has forgotten, and they are so far from Catholic
teachings.
Even among the Dominican Fathers, there were dissension on
the changes. The Liberal would not allow any more conservatives
to join their order, and they all died off leaving a very liberal
and progressive order that is far from the intentions of Saint
Dominic.

trickster · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2014, 01:28:29 PM »

Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey

The Latin Mass makes The Church one, holy Catholic apostolic Church.

It used to be that you could go anywhere in the world and the
Mass would be the same.

Also, ask an exorcist priest: the devil hates Latin.

And one part of the Mass is Greek Kyrie Elesion.

I agree with you Viva Cristo Rey. I have come across a directive written by Saint Pope John XXIII prior to the opening up of Vatican II where he did not allow the mass to be said in anything other than Latin. Not only that, he wrote in very clear support of strengthening the teaching and use of the Latin language in Catholic institutions and priestly/religious training of the day. He also quoted Pope Pius XII in the latter's statement about the idea that the use of Latin was not so much about culture but about religion.

My understanding of the facts are the same as yours. I don't know about the exorcist notion that the devil hates Latin...but am open to any resources or references you have would ground that statement.

Having said that, I am getting some very clear indications from both Catholic Answers (which I posted the question to) and this forum that Latin is not intrinsic to the Mass, but there is a good rationale for its' use. Some claim a divine leadership in the choice of Latin in our liturgy. That claim though is a matter of opinion and understanding.

I am not sure that there were any use of infallibility to back up the idea that God wanted us to use Latin in the Mass. That is my only point. It does not sound too controversial to Traditional Catholics.

Bruce