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Author Topic: Fr Hesse on the Mass of Pius V vs 1962  (Read 2258 times)

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Online OABrownson1876

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Re: Fr Hesse on the Mass of Pius V vs 1962
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 08:45:52 PM »
The new rite of episcopal consecration and the new rite of ordination are not the same kettle of fish. While the new rite of episcopal consecration is legitimately doubtful due to the massive sweeping changes in form, compare that to the relevant words for the Traditional and New Rites of Ordination, tell me if you spot the difference
"Grant we beseech Thee, Almighty Father to these thy servants, the dignity of the Priesthood: renew within them the spirit of holiness so that they may hold from Thee, O God, the office of the second rank in Thy service and by the example of their behavior afford a pattern of holy living."

“Grant we beseech Thee, Almighty Father to these thy servants, the dignity of the Priesthood: renew within them the spirit of holiness. May they hold from Thee, O God, the office of the second rank in Thy service and by the example of their behavior afford a pattern of holy living.”

While immoral, there is no substantial difference between the Form, and if said by a valid Bishop which in Fr. Hesse's case is true, the ordination is valid (but illicit)
The clear intent of the freemasonic revolutionary prelates was to either do away with completely or alter drastically the forms of the sacraments and orders. Take this pamphlet which I have, printed in 1972.  It was actually sent to the priests, Ministeria Quaedam. The front of the Motu proprio says "laying down norms."  First tonsure was done away with; the minor orders are now called "ministries."




The Council of Florence (Denz. 701) gave the Latin formula for the ordination of a priest: Accipe postestatem offerendi sacrificium in ecclesia pro vivis et mortuis, in nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti, "Receive the power of offering sacrifice in the church for the living and the dead, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost."  The longer form is in the Roman Ritual. 

Re: Fr Hesse on the Mass of Pius V vs 1962
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 11:34:56 PM »
Though I hold the Sede position, I concede you could make an argument for the doubtfulness of the new rites, provided it doesn't imply they came from the Church.
As an example, Bp Williamson went through a line of argument from a Canonist on why the Mass of Pope Pius V was not abrogated by the NOM, and not obrogated correctly (if I'm recalling correctly).
Source:
Lecture 38 of 63 — Matthew 16 Indefectibility & NOM — Wednesday, February 14, 1996
https://open.substack.com/pub/vladsarto/p/bishop-williamson-teaches-the-gospel
Back on the topic of the thread, assuming John XXIII was a valid Pope (or even that these changes were made by Pope Pius XII, I'm not very familiar with it), a Pope would have the right to make the changes to the Mass. Pope Pius XII teaches this in Mediator Dei, para 58
58. It follows from this that the Sovereign Pontiff alone enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God, to introduce and approve new rites, as also to modify those he judges to require modification.

There is a famous historical anecdote regarding the Roman Canon (now Eucharistic Prayer I). When Pope Pius IX was asked to insert the name of St. Joseph into the Canon of the Mass, he reportedly replied: "I cannot do that; I am only the Pope."

This reluctance highlights the reverence popes held for the Roman Canon, which has remained largely untouched since the time of Pope St. Gregory the Great in the 6th century.

The history of the Canon includes several key milestones:Antiquity: The fixed Eucharistic Prayer evolved over the early centuries of the Church, with Popes St. Damasus and St. Gregory the Great shaping its core.Pope St. Pius V: In 1570, he promulgated the Roman Missal to ensure liturgical uniformity across the Latin Rite.




Cardinal Siri's 1958 Masonic usurper, added St. Joseph to the Canon.