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Offline Dylan

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Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
« on: April 02, 2008, 09:45:29 PM »
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  • Hi everyone,

    I have come across an argument by a skeptic that he claims is "proof" that Jesus isn't the Messiah, he states:

    "Jesus' royal genes must come through David's son Solomon, not through Nathan from which his mother descends.

    Even if family line could go through the mother, Mary was not from a legitimate Messianic family. According to the Bible, the Messiah must be a descendant of David through his son Solomon (II Samuel 7:14; I Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-109' "Behold, a son will be born to you, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies on every side; for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quiet to Israel in his days. He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever."

    So Solomon's descendants were to sit on the throne over Israel forever. Any Mary did not come through Solomon, she came through David's other son, Nathan."


    Could someone please provide a refutation of this claim?

    Thanks.

    In Christ,
    Dylan.

    Offline roscoe

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #1 on: April 02, 2008, 10:00:38 PM »
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  • If he doesn't believe in Jesus, ask him who The Saviour is.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline roscoe

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #2 on: April 02, 2008, 10:05:48 PM »
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  • Whatever the details(I am not a Biblcal scholar), the Pentacostal, Nicene, Tridentine, Vatican I Church has infallibly stated otherwise; have him read Constitution.

    http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/V1.HTM#4 and #6
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline PinoyMonk

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #3 on: April 02, 2008, 10:33:24 PM »
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  • roscoe:  If the gentleman in question denies that Our Lord is the Christ, then His Church would cease to have any authority.  If that is indeed the case (in the mind of this man), proclamations from the various Councils would be considered completely invalid arguments.

    Dylan:  I have not studied this matter, so I must admit my ignorance.  I am not capable of assisting you in this situation.  If you do find more information (outside of CathInfo), please do keep us informed.
    "In this difficult time, to be victorious, we must be steadfast using all of our strength and capabilities like brave soldiers fully armed in the battlefield ... Whatever happens, behave in such a way that God will be glorified."

    -Saint Andrew Kim

    "

    Offline Dylan

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #4 on: April 02, 2008, 10:40:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    If he doesn't believe in Jesus, ask him who The Saviour is.


    This skeptic is an atheist so he doesn't believe that there is a Saviour.


    Offline roscoe

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #5 on: April 02, 2008, 10:40:55 PM »
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  • Well, maybe he should read Infallible Constitution of Holy Church--one cannot reject a set of beliefs until one is acquainted with them. It takes about an hour to read document.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Dylan

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #6 on: April 02, 2008, 10:42:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: PinoyMonk
    Dylan:  I have not studied this matter, so I must admit my ignorance.  I am not capable of assisting you in this situation.  If you do find more information (outside of CathInfo), please do keep us informed.


    I've asked several people but, haven't received any responses yet, so when I do will.

    And if anyone else has anything to add to this, please do.

    Offline roscoe

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #7 on: April 02, 2008, 10:43:09 PM »
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  • And besides that, how do you prove a negative?
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Dylan

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #8 on: April 02, 2008, 10:46:16 PM »
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  • Well basically, what this guy is saying is that the Bible say the Messiah has to be a descendant of David through Solomon and not Nathan.

    Offline roscoe

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #9 on: April 02, 2008, 11:00:17 PM »
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  • If this person is an athiest, what is he doing interpreting the Bible in the first place?
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Dylan

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #10 on: April 02, 2008, 11:01:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    If this person is an athiest, what is he doing interpreting the Bible in the first place?


    Apparently, this guy thinks he's "on a mission" to debunk Christianity and convert people to atheism so, he wants to debunk the Bible, itself.


    Offline Kephapaulos

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #11 on: April 02, 2008, 11:07:36 PM »
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  • I would suggest looking at the particular passages he cited above and search for any good Catholic biblical commentary on them.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

    Offline Dylan

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #12 on: April 02, 2008, 11:57:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Kephapaulos
    I would suggest looking at the particular passages he cited above and search for any good Catholic biblical commentary on them.


    I've tried to do that but, the commentary that I've looked at (Haydock's) doesn't seem to cover this issue.

    Would someone happen to know of a good apologist that I could contact online who could help me with this dilemma?

    Offline roscoe

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 12:06:15 AM »
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  • It is  strange that an athiest would have such detailed knowledge of the Bible. A good possibility exists that this person is humoring you.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the anti-christ will claim to be decended from Solomon. Has anyone read Solomon's Power Brokers by the Masons Knight and Butler? There is some interesting material on Rosslyn Castle.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Dylan

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    Refuting objections to Jesus as the Messiah
    « Reply #14 on: April 03, 2008, 12:16:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    It is  strange that an athiest would have such detailed knowledge of the Bible. A good possibility exists that this person is humoring you.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the anti-christ will claim to be decended from Solomon. Has anyone read Solomon's Power Brokers by the Masons Knight and Butler? There is some interesting material on Rosslyn Castle.


    This person isn't talking with me, I've just been reading some of his posts on Stormfront, here is his profile there: http://www.stormfront.org/forum/member.php?find=lastposter&t=402308

     

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