Author Topic: Rebuttal of liberal anti-SSPX article (Read 2394 times)

Matthew · « **on:** January 20, 2007, 10:39:52 AM »

To preserve the "piece by piece" commenting, I have turned the short post into a word docuмent. Feel free to download it --

By the way, it wasn't me who did the responding -- I could easily elaborate on some of his points, but he did a good job of exposing the bias and lies in the article.

"Say what you will about the SSPX, but stick to the truth." is what I always say. God and the Church's cause are never served by sin (or specifically, lies and slander). One cannot do evil that good may result.

In fact, seeing the SSPX so persecuted -- in particular, unjustly accused and lied about -- forces a mental comparision between them and Our Lord during His public life. He was Goodness itself, but was on the receiving end of countless lies and slander.

Our Lord also warned that "if they persecuted me, they will persecute you also." so apparently the true Church will be persecuted, and not well-loved by the world. Hmm...

Matthew

Daniel · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2007, 08:12:13 PM »

The more I see the SSPX persecuted the more secure I feel in the knowledge that I have made the right choice by entrusting them with mine and the souls of my family.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2007, 08:31:21 PM »

The reason I mention "lies and slander" is because articles like this MUST know that some of those statements are not true -- they are TRYING to blacken the name of the SSPX, it seems.

It wouldn't take much research to determine that only the 4 bishops have been "excommunicated", for instance -- and not all the priests in the Society. Likewise for some of the other errors. The "respectable" adversaries of the SSPX at least stick to the facts.

They also seem to leave out anything that makes the SSPX look good (such as the fact that the SSPX was founded with Church approval).

I've read, and talked to in person, plenty of people who simply disagree, who find themselves on a different "path" in this Crisis and I can respect that. Perhaps they can't get past "I must follow the pope", etc. However, we ALL need to be held to certain standards of goodness and truth. Anyone of good will is NOT going to resort to the devil's methods!

In Christ,

Matthew

gilbertgea · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2007, 11:09:56 AM »

By 'defending' 'accusations' of 'anti-Semitism', you are falling right into a classic, Liberal/Modernist trap.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2007, 11:34:53 AM »

You are saying that the author of the slander is falling into a liberal/modernist trap, I assume.

gilbertgea · « **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2007, 11:38:23 AM »

'You are saying that the author of the slander is falling into a liberal/modernist trap, I assume.'

No. I am saying that you are falling for the trap. You are defending an accusation of something that is, frankly, a matter of opinion.

The authour of the slander may or may not be consciously promoting the assumptions behind 'accusing' someone of 'anti-Semitism' (by which he probably means anti-Judaism). I dont know, and it really doesnt matter.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2007, 10:20:51 PM »

Quote from: Daniel

The more I see the SSPX persecuted the more secure I feel in the knowledge that I have made the right choice by entrusting them with mine and the souls of my family.

Even if we, for the sake of argument, grant that the SSPX is the greatest priestly organization the world has ever seen, it is still NOT the Church - but merely a PART thereof. Outside the SSPX there is salvation, but outside the Church there is none to be found.

Daniel · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2007, 05:56:04 AM »

Can you point out to me where I have said anything to the contrary? Nothing in the exerpt you have quoted points to me suggesting there is no salvation outside of the SSPX. A ridiculous suggestion and completely unfounded in anything I have said or posted here or elsewhere.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2007, 05:00:19 PM »

Quote from: Daniel

...the SSPX...I have made the right choice by entrusting them with mine and the souls of my family.

Are you entrusting God and His Holy Church, or the SSPX? Sure looks like you are - at least in the words I have now quoted to you twice - talking about entrusting the SSPX with your soul, as well the souls of your family.

You may think I am trying to hammer you, Daniel. However, I simply do not want you to be brainwashed, as so many already have been in these dark days when cults of personality spring up at the drop of a hat.

Lest some think I am saying "Go sede, where everyone is the picture of sanity" or some other nonsense, I have seen such unhealthy behavior across the board (NO, SSPX, Sedes, etc.). Such is somewhat understandable in the difficult circuмstances of these times.

Daniel · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2007, 07:40:04 PM »

Move back to Florida dude. At least your posts were worth a read back then. You've gone from charitable gentleman to a bloke who draws the longest bow I've ever seen. You just seem to be getting more and more premeditated and more and more ridiculous as time goes by. Let me know when you've left the nut house and gone back home.

John Steven · « **Reply #10 on:** March 30, 2007, 09:16:26 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Quote from: Daniel
...the SSPX...I have made the right choice by entrusting them with mine and the souls of my family.

Are you entrusting God and His Holy Church, or the SSPX? Sure looks like you are - at least in the words I have now quoted to you twice - talking about entrusting the SSPX with your soul, as well the souls of your family.

You may think I am trying to hammer you, Daniel. However, I simply do not want you to be brainwashed, as so many already have been in these dark days when cults of personality spring up at the drop of a hat.

Lest some think I am saying "Go sede, where everyone is the picture of sanity" or some other nonsense, I have seen such unhealthy behavior across the board (NO, SSPX, Sedes, etc.). Such is somewhat understandable in the difficult circuмstances of these times.

Give it a rest, dude. You could just as well insert "parish priest" for "SSPX" in what Daniel wrote:

"I have made the right choice by entrusting my parish priest with mine and the souls of my family. "

Does that still sound irksome to your ears?

Vandaler · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2007, 10:00:27 PM »

Quote from: Daniel

The more I see the SSPX persecuted the more secure I feel in the knowledge that I have made the right choice by entrusting them with mine and the souls of my family.

I never post in SSPX discussion... It's rather foreign to me. So please don't get to technical or defensive I ask in peace...

I'm curious though as to why It's persecution makes you feel secure. Could you expand on what you mean by that?

Daniel · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2007, 11:44:24 PM »

G'day Vandaler.

Our Lord said that the world hated Him and that it would hate us too. I guess I relate this to the venom that is directed at the SSPX. They just cop it all the time from sede vacantists and novus ordites alike and it never seems to let up or know any boundaries.
I don't expect everyone to see it that way, but I certainly feel more vindicated by my choice the more I see this treatment of them.
I have a history of defending both sede vacantists and novus ordites on forums because none of us know what the hell is going on these days for certain and doing the best we can figure is doing just that, so I don't go for this Extra SSPX Nulla Sallus garbage. It is amazing how many times I've been accused of it though, simply for defending the SSPX position. Again, this just makes me feel even more comfortable with my choice. The same people are happy enough if I weigh in when they are copping it from some kook.
The ridiculous accusations, the premeditated taking of words completely out of context, it all helps me a great deal and the really funny thing is that I find it all a bit of a laugh really.
At the end of the day religious political obsession is the realms of others, I really couldn't care too much for what others are doing or thinking but the on going venom has the opposite effect on me than it is intended to.

Vandaler · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2007, 06:56:13 AM »

Thank you for your response.

Have a good holy week.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2007, 03:10:51 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

...I simply do not want you to be brainwashed, as so many already have been in these dark days when cults of personality spring up at the drop of a hat...

I was not insinuating that this has already taken place in your case, Daniel, but simply expressing sincere desire to see it averted if there is any danger of it happening - for I have seen it happen in many cases, and would not like to see it happen in your own. That is all.

If I misread your words, seeing in them that which was not present, it was not with any sort of twisted intention. To learn it is not so makes me very happy.

A blessed Holy Week to all.