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Author Topic: Reasons for the Latin Mass: Part 1  (Read 1392 times)

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Offline ajpirc

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Reasons for the Latin Mass: Part 1
« on: August 12, 2011, 01:03:10 PM »
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  • Many times when defending the True Mass and attacking the Novus Ordo, I say, "The Mass is not a "community meal" as the Protestants believe, but a Sacrifice. This is why an altar facing the Lord should be used as the priest offers the Sacrifice to Him; not a table facing the congregation to eat "bread" around." The answer that I get to this: "When Christ instituted the Mass, it was the Last Supper with the disciples gathered around the table."

    How do I respond to this assertion that the Mass is a community meal around a table?

    Thank you.

    ajpirc
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev


    Offline s2srea

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    Reasons for the Latin Mass: Part 1
    « Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 01:29:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: ajpirc
    Many times when defending the True Mass and attacking the Novus Ordo, I say, "The Mass is not a "community meal" as the Protestants believe, but a Sacrifice. This is why an altar facing the Lord should be used as the priest offers the Sacrifice to Him; not a table facing the congregation to eat "bread" around." The answer that I get to this: "When Christ instituted the Mass, it was the Last Supper with the disciples gathered around the table."

    How do I respond to this assertion that the Mass is a community meal around a table?

    Thank you.

    ajpirc


    I think others will answer better than I, but my response would be this:

    Yes, our Lord instituted the last supper "gathered around the table", but he had not yet died on the cross for us. Remeber His words," For this is my blood of the new testament which shall be shed for many, ". There would be no way to "Eat his body" (and they will deny Transubstantiation here, so be prepared on defending the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist) without sacrificing the 2nd Person in God, as was done on Mt. Calvary. He thus unified the sacrifice on Calvary with the last supper. We still partake (those of us in the state of grace) in the communion of Christ, as he'd instructed. But his instructions weren't to have a community meal, but to celebrate the un-bloody sacrifice of him. The Catholic Church, and early Church fathers, understood the link between the Old Testament sacrifice, and what Jesus instructions were.

    This is very short, but I hope to the point. Also- I would encourage them to investigate the way masses were said in the early centuries of the church. 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries. Since the mostly believe that the Church was still, "The Church" in the first 3 or 4 centuries after Christ, encourage them to investigate how "Mass" was celebrated in those times. Ask them,  "If the Church of Christ was still the 'Church of Christ' in the first centuries, why then do you not hold the tradition of saying mass the way they did in those times?"


    Offline Sigismund

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    Reasons for the Latin Mass: Part 1
    « Reply #2 on: August 13, 2011, 08:39:02 AM »
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  • The sacrifices offered in the Old Testament did involve a community meal, but that did not detract from their primary purpose as sacrifices to the honor and glory of God.  The Eucharist involves a community meal.  People receive Holy Communion together.  However, its primary purpose is as a sacrifice to God.  The meal aspect is not untrue, but it is secondary at best.  A Mass is still a Mass even if the community meal aspect is absent (as when a priest celebrates alone).  The liturgical configuration at the traditional Mass makes this central truth much more apparent.  You might also point out that the NO can and really should be celebrated facing the altar.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline ajpirc

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    Reasons for the Latin Mass: Part 1
    « Reply #3 on: August 13, 2011, 01:27:52 PM »
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  • To the best of my knowledge, the Old Testament sacrifices of the Passover prefigured the Sacrifice of the Mass, as was said. At these sacrifices, an unblemished lamb (the Lamb of God at the Mass). Those at the sacrifice had to eat unleavened bread and also the sacrificed lamb. Would eating the Lamb under the appearance of the bread be the only part of the Mass being a "meal"? In my opinion, the only part of a "community meal" is when the congregation kneels at the communion rail (I think it's also called the congregation's altar) to receive the Blessed Sacrament.
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev

    Offline Sigismund

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    Reasons for the Latin Mass: Part 1
    « Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 08:23:14 PM »
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  • Yes, I would say you are right.  I have never heard the rail described in that way, but is is quite apt.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


    Offline romanitaspress

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    Reasons for the Latin Mass: Part 1
    « Reply #5 on: August 23, 2011, 12:04:31 PM »
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  • Communion is actually being received *from the altar* (i.e., Christ) which is sometimes called the "Eucharistic Table" though not meant in the Novus Ordo sense. In Catholic England, the altar was commonly referred to as the "Holy Board" (i.e., from the term "room and board" or food). Of course this symbolic language coincides perfectly with other terms such as "Angelic Banquet", "Divine Supper", "Bread of Angels", etc. The Eastern Rites in particular also have a variety of beautifully symbolic terms to describe this "meal" aspect of Holy Communion (which is a fruit of the Holy Sacrifice). Of course we also have reference to Passover Pasch, or eating of the Lamb in Agnus Dei.  Such rich realities!

    Also, the Communion rail is actually an extension of the altar (thus sometimes called the "altar rail"), and the prescribed Communion cloth an extension of the altar cloth, and in reality, the corporal.

    In larger churches that did not have Communion rails (as frequently seen in major Roman basilicas and European cathedrals - NB: this is not due to any N.O. wreckage - it was always like this), the Communion cloth was held by the acolytes under the chins of the communicants (NB: the Communion plate was not introduced until the 1920's, and per a 1929 clarification of the Sacred Congregation of Rite, was to be used *in conjunction* with the cloth).

    One other quick point, the faithful should not bury or put their hands under the cloth (i.e., unnecessarily touch or lift it) as this can only disturb the intended flat surface (which acts as safeguard in case the Host is accidentally dropped) and cause it to sloop (thereby potentially causing a dropped Host to slide off the cloth rather than being caught) as well as dirties the pure white linen. J.B. O'Connell in "The Celebration of Mass: A Study of the Rubrics of the Roman Rite" and others (e.g., "Matters Liturgical") point this little directive out.