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Author Topic: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?  (Read 6204 times)

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Offline Coillte7

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Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
« on: March 06, 2025, 02:27:01 PM »
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  • Does anyone here have experience of the SSPX reading the Gospel in English (AND NOT IN LATIN) during Mass?

    For Ash Wednesday our priest did not read the Gospel in Latin at all but solely English and I wanted to know how much of an issue this is (given that I'm still learning about Tradition)?

    NB. I realise it is fine to read the Epistle and Gospel in English preceding the sermon after they were already read in Latin as part of the Mass, but that is not what I am speaking of here.

    Offline LakeEnjoyer

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #1 on: March 06, 2025, 02:34:39 PM »
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  • I haven't been at a mass where this was practiced.

    However from my understanding I believe that this was something quite common in France before the Novus Ordo but after Vatican II.


    Offline andy

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #2 on: March 06, 2025, 02:38:08 PM »
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  • Never at FSSPX owned place. In fact, I remember a case when a priest skipped reading in English because it was too long.

    Offline Clare67

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #3 on: March 06, 2025, 02:52:30 PM »
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  • At St. Nicolas du Chardonnet a priest reads the Gospel in French on Sundays while the celebrant is reading the Gospel in Latin.  Here is last Sunday:



    Gospel begins around minute 13:25. 

    The French SSPX has been doing this for quite sometime I understand.   I've even seen during the weekday Masses they only read the Epistle and Gospel in French.  


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #4 on: March 06, 2025, 04:46:22 PM »
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  • At St. Nicolas du Chardonnet a priest reads the Gospel in French on Sundays while the celebrant is reading the Gospel in Latin. 

    The French SSPX has been doing this for quite sometime I understand.  I've even seen during the weekday Masses they only read the Epistle and Gospel in French. 
    When I was at St. Nicolas back in the 1990s, the celebrant read the Epistle and Gospel only in French, not in Latin. It was rather jarring at first. That and the majority of women wore slacks (pace Msgr. Williamson) and lacked any head covering. This was for weekday Low Masses.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline Archkanzler

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #5 on: March 06, 2025, 11:13:59 PM »
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  • Reading the epistle and/or gospel in the vernacular only is most assuredly a liturgical abuse. I am to understand that it has long been the practice in France, but the SSPX now try to show it down the throats of Americans, together with their dialogue masses.

    Offline LakeEnjoyer

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #6 on: March 07, 2025, 01:18:37 AM »
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  • Reading the epistle and/or gospel in the vernacular only is most assuredly a liturgical abuse. I am to understand that it has long been the practice in France, but the SSPX now try to show it down the throats of Americans, together with their dialogue masses.

    Yes, as far as I can tell, there is nothing in the rubrics permitting vernacular only readings. Ultimately it's an innovation. 

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #7 on: March 07, 2025, 04:18:04 AM »
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  • Yes, as far as I can tell, there is nothing in the rubrics permitting vernacular only readings. Ultimately it's an innovation.
    Vernacular readings alone is actually mentioned as an option in one of the docuмents governing "Indult/Motu" Masses. I would call this creeping towards the Novus Ordo Missæ.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #8 on: March 07, 2025, 04:39:58 AM »
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  • In the France SSPX, we are so used to hearing the epistle in French, that we are surprised when it is said in Latin. I've heard the gospel once spoken in French

    Offline Philip

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #9 on: March 07, 2025, 05:57:04 AM »
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  • Having the epistle and Gospel in the vernacular became the norm with the changes introduced on Advent Sunday 1964, or Lent 1965, depending on the local bishops.

    There may have been indults/concessions for France, and other countries, before that.

    Offline LakeEnjoyer

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #10 on: March 07, 2025, 08:12:05 AM »
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  • Does anybody know whether the Resistance in France practise this?

    I'm fairly sure the Epistle and Gospel were read in Latin at the three Resistance Masses I attended in France, but my memory is hazy.


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #11 on: March 07, 2025, 08:41:14 AM »
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  • Having the epistle and Gospel in the vernacular became the norm with the changes introduced on Advent Sunday 1964, or Lent 1965, depending on the local bishops.

    There may have been indults/concessions for France, and other countries, before that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgical_reforms_of_Pope_Pius_XII#Use_of_the_vernacular


    Quote
    Permission for the use of the vernacular for parts of the Mass had been granted on occasion long before the papacy of Pius XII; including in 1906 by Pius X (parts of Yugoslavia), Benedict XV in 1920 (Croatian, Slovenian, and Czech), Pius XI in 1929 (Bavaria).[3]

    Under Pius XII, the Sacred Congregation of Rites granted permission for the use of local languages in countries with expanding Catholic mission activities, including in Indonesia and Japan in 1941–2. In 1949 permission was granted for using Mandarin Chinese in Mass except for the Canon, and for the use of Hindi in India in 1950. Permission was also granted to use a French (1948) and German (1951) translation for rituals other than Mass.[3]

    As a means of increasing the participation of the congregation in the celebration of Mass, recognizing that joining in chant is not possible at a Mass that is "read" rather than sung, in 1958 Pius approved the use of hymns in the vernacular at appropriate points in the service.[4] As a means to closer awareness by the congregation he also allowed the epistle and gospel to be read aloud by a layman while the celebrant read them quietly in Latin.[5]

    Though insisting on the primacy of Latin in the liturgy of the Western Church (cf. Mediator Dei, par. 60), Pius XII approves the use of the vernacular in the Ritual for sacraments and other rites outside the Mass. All such permissions, however, were to be granted by the Holy See, and Pius XII strongly condemned the efforts of individual priests and communities to introduce the vernacular on their own authority. He allowed the use of the vernacular in other rites and sacraments outside the Mass,[6] in the service for Baptism and Extreme Unction.[7]


    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in Chuvash.
    « Reply #12 on: March 07, 2025, 09:39:19 AM »
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  • Эпӗ XII Пийӑн пысӑк промоутерӗ мар, каҫарӑр.  Вӑл литургире нумай диверсисем тунӑ, уйрӑмах Псалтирьне улӑштарнӑ.
    Épĕ XII Pijăn pysăk promouterĕ mar, kaçarăr. Văl liturgire numaj diversisem tună, ujrămah Psaltirʹne ulăštarnă.
    Long live Latin.
    La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline Philip

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #13 on: March 07, 2025, 09:44:10 AM »
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  • I understand the original post on the thread mentioned having the reading(s) only in the vernacular and not in Latin at all.

    It was common practice for the priest to read the epistle and Gospel in English (or whatever the local language was) from the pulpit at the start of his sermon after he had read/sung both at the altar.  The Liturgical Movment encouraged 'parallel' reading of the texts in the vernacular but the celebrant still read them in Latin as your emphasised quote indicates.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Reading the Gospel in English at Mass?
    « Reply #14 on: March 07, 2025, 10:45:24 AM »
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  • Does anybody know whether the Resistance in France practise this?

    I'm fairly sure the Epistle and Gospel were read in Latin at the three Resistance Masses I attended in France, but my memory is hazy.

    "I'm fairly sure everything was proper at the Resistance Mass I attended, but you know how unreliable a person's memory is. Can I interest you in some Fear-Uncertainty-Doubt?"

    "I have never seen Fr. Resistance do anything wrong, but sources say he might have done something wrong. I don't know. It's hard to say. Memories can be faulty. What say all of you?"

    Watch it. That's how rumors get started.
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