Author Topic: Questions for SSPX attendees (Read 2242 times)

veribus · « **on:** March 20, 2007, 11:28:58 AM »

Looks like a fair number of SSPX attendees on this board, so I wonder if you'd all oblige to answer some questions:

1. How many priests at your church/chapel/Mass site?

2. Exactly what rite does your priest(s) use: 1962 Modernized Mass, Tridentine Mass, 1965 variations, etc?

3. Was your priest(s) ordained with the old rite of Holy Orders or the Novus Ordo rite?

4. What's your pastor's/parish's view on the new Sacraments?

5. Are attendees considered members of the SSPX?

6. What's the view on Thuc and the Thuc consecrations in your parish?

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2007, 12:03:23 PM »

1. Fr. Zigrang
2. 1962 Tridentine Missal
3. Fr. Zigrang was originally ordained with new rite, but I'm not sure if he was conditionally ordained or not (probably was). I haven't asked him, but I know that other priests in his position were conditionally ordained -- just to be safe.
4. I haven't asked him.
5. No, the SSPX is a priestly fraternity. There aren't any lay members.
6. Again, I haven't taken a poll, but I believe that such consecrations are valid, though illicit. It makes quite a mess when you have hot-head priests and bishops owing allegiance to no one but themselves. At least in the SSPX there is a structure, and priests give obedience to SOMEONE.

After all, the priest is -- by nature -- a "helper" to his bishop. That's one of the reasons I support the SSPX. It allows traditional priests to stay traditional, without many of the risks of being a "loner" or "maverick".

That said, certain bishops consecrating other bishops for the "good of the Church" can't be condemned too much -- after all, the SSPX was founded by Archbishop Lefebvre, who for the good of the Church consecrated 4 bishops to succeed him.
(Still, you notice that AFTER 19 YEARS we still only have 4 bishops -- they haven't multiplied like mushrooms -- that's very important)

SSPX priests are in the best position right now, because they neither have to compromise (Novus Ordo, Indult) nor do they have the risks of being "alone" and disconnecting from the rest of the Church entirely (Sede, Independent). The latter tend to think that the True Church is down to a remnant of a few dozen -- a bit of a distortion.

I think the SSPX is taking the safest, and best, path in this Crisis.

In Christ,

Matthew

MaterDominici · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2007, 02:06:52 PM »

To elaborate Chant's response:

1. We have one regular priest, but he does not reside locally. He spends his weekdays at a priory with several other priests and a school. On the weekends, he says Mass at 2 of the 4 cities for which he is the pastor.

Priests living in community with other priests is a requirement which was established by Archbiship Lefebvre for the SSPX .

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2007, 02:40:25 PM »

While we're clarifying, I should also add --

The SSPX, like most religious orders, has a 2nd order (for nuns) and a 3rd order (for laypeople).

So while a layperson COULD become a "3rd order member" of the SSPX, it is not common and, at any rate, is not remarkable.

Matthew

CampeadorShin · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2007, 03:11:10 PM »

Do independent priests who have friends among the SSPX count?

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2007, 05:49:29 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Fr. Zigrang was originally ordained with new rite, but I'm not sure if he was conditionally ordained or not (probably was). I haven't asked him, but I know that other priests in his position were conditionally ordained -- just to be safe.

Why would this ever be necessary, if - as the SSPX insists - the new rite is valid?

If you doubt the validity of the new rite, ask him if he was conditionally re-ordained. "Probably was" does not cut it in such matters.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2007, 05:50:54 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

The SSPX, like most religious orders, has a 2nd order (for nuns) and a 3rd order (for laypeople).

While we are clarifying, I should also add that the SSPX is not - and never was - a religious order.

Daniel · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2007, 06:27:48 AM »

Forgive me for asking Gladius, but which of Veribus' questions are you answering there, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6? I'm a bit confused.

Veribus

I am from Bribane Queensland which is mid way on the East coast of Australia. I attend Our Lady Of Lourdes and will be happy to answer your questions.

1. We have 3 Priests.
2. Our Parish Priest uses the 1910 Missal of PiusX. The others use the 1962 Missal but like any Priest who uses it are hardly loyal to it. They all intone the second Confiteor, light the Sanctus lamp etc.
3. All the Priests are ordained in the Traditional Rite.
4.The sacraments are an outward sign instituted by Our Lord to give Sactifying Grace.
5.This question could be deliberately misinterpreted by trolls so you may need to be more specific. I would call myself a Parishoner. A Nun, Brother or Layperson could be considered a "member" of the 2nd or 3rd order. The SSPX is not a club or cult.
6. I couldn't care less. Good luck to him.

Hope this is of some help. The best thing to do is ateend and make your own mind up. Don't be detered by trolls or overly zealous Parishoners. It's your choice, the only way to make it is to go and see and make an appointment to see the Priest, he isn't going to pressure you.

Keep up your Daily Rosary and you'll be fine.

Edut: 24/03/07; 7:55pm speeling and grammu mistaches remooved to appeeze the purfict.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2007, 09:51:14 PM »

Quote from: Daniel

Forgive me for asking Gladius, but which of Veribus' questions are you answering there, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or six? I'm a bit confused.

As ChantCD is quoted in my post, I had hoped those who read it would be able - without great difficulty - to ascertain that it was in response to his comments.

Sorry to 'confuse' you, mate.

What confuses me is why you used numerals for 1 through 5, but spelled out the number 'six'.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2007, 10:05:33 PM »

Quote from: Daniel

...I would call myself a Parishoners. A Nun, Brother or Layperson could be considered a "member" of the 2nd or 3rd order. The SSPX is not a club or cult.

Might want to look at that grammar book again, Daniel. "I" is a singular subject, while "Parishioners" is plural.

As the SSPX is not a religious order, there cannot be a second or third order - as there is no first order.

As for the club/cult comment, there are many who would disagree.

Quote

The best thing to do is ateend and make your own mind up.

Could you please define "ateend", Daniel? I am, well, a bit confused. Also, it is better to avoid ending sentences with prepositions.

Daniel · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2007, 04:53:45 AM »

Congratulations on the smart arse comments Gladius. Please accept my appologies for having been in a hurry to leave when I typed the mistakes you so disgracefully and uncharitably point out. Can you point out how this is productive? Or are you intentionally setting out to make a fool of yourself? If you are some how perfect yourself or find yourself in the position of never having made a mistake, please, in your perfection, forgive me. I also wish to appologise in advance for any spelling and grammar errors which may be present in this post.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2007, 09:29:25 AM »

Quote from: Daniel

Congratulations on the smart arse comments Gladius.

Thank you, Daniel. I can feel the sincerity of your "appology".

Quote

Can you point out how this is productive? Or are you intentionally setting out to make a fool of yourself?

You began this, Daniel.

I answered something rather plainly, referencing the person to whom my remarks were addressed, and you CHOSE to intrude and make a smart-ass dig anyway.

This is my final comment upon the matter. God bless you, my good Daniel, and all who read this.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:59:54 PM »

From www.sspx.org:

Quote

1. What is the Third Order of Saint Pius X?

The Third Order is the fifth family of the Society of Saint Pius X. You probably know that the first family in time was the priests and seminarians. This is the most important family of the Society of Saint Pius X, since the latter is a "priestly society of common life without vows." The Priesthood is indeed the main concern of the Society. All our faithful know our American seminary in Winona, which is one of the five major seminaries of the Society of Saint Pius X, a Society which now has over three hundred and fifty priests and about a third of that amount of seminarians.

The second family is the sisters of the Society of Saint Pius X, which now has more than seventy-five members, professed, novices, and postulants. They are the helpers of the priests by their daily prayer life ( Mass, Rosary, Divine Office, Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament), by their active apostolate (sacristy, catechism, visits to the sick), and their practical work (kitchen, washing, etc.). Their mother house is in Saint Michele-en-Brenne, France and several young American women have joined their convent.

The third family is the brothers. They have, at present, twenty members who devote themselves all over the world to supporting the priests. Several young Americans belong to this family, and at present the American Novitiate is at Jesus & Mary Brothers' Novitiate in El Paso, Texas.

The fourth family is the Oblates, persons living in common with the priests, seminarians, brothers, and nuns but without taking vows. They remain lay-persons but are nevertheless a great help in the different houses in which they are to be found.

The fifth family to come into being is the Third Order, which was founded in 1980.

What defines what a second or third order is other than the rules of the body calling themselves such? What would be the second order of a religious group of nuns? It seems in this case that Third Order is simply the title which has been chosen as they are the fifth organized group under the SSPX which, as Gladius said, is primarily a priestly society, not a religious order.

clare · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2007, 09:45:53 AM »

Quote from: veribus

1. How many priests at your church/chapel/Mass site?

For the North of England:

There's a Priory in Preston, Lancashire, which is meant to have three priests. At the moment there are only two, and a brother. Each weekend a priest from down south comes up and supplies. One priest travels up to Scotland on Friday and does a Mass run taking in Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Newcastle. Another does Preston and Keighley (and once a month, Middlesbrough). The third does Manchester, Liverpool, and either North Wales or Tunstall (alternate weeks).

Quote

2. Exactly what rite does your priest(s) use: 1962 Modernized Mass, Tridentine Mass, 1965 variations, etc?

1962.

Quote

3. Was your priest(s) ordained with the old rite of Holy Orders or the Novus Ordo rite?

"Old" Rite.

Quote

4. What's your pastor's/parish's view on the new Sacraments?

Valid, but to be avoided, I think.

Quote

5. Are attendees considered members of the SSPX?

No. Just Catholics!

Quote

6. What's the view on Thuc and the Thuc consecrations in your parish?

I've not heard them mentioned!

Clare.

Padre_Pro · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2007, 10:33:34 PM »

Our SSPX priest was ordained in 2004 in the Traditional Ordination Rite by His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson. All of the SSPX, including our SSPX priest, uses the 1962 rubrics of the Mass. Our priest does recognize, as the whole SSPX does, the new sacraments (at least their validity), or they would probably say you say that the SSPX parishioners are not allowed to go to the NO. As mentioned before, the Thuc line topic isn't really mentioned. I have probably repeated some things, but I am just letting you know how are parish is.