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Author Topic: Questioning certain teachings of the Church  (Read 3158 times)

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Offline Mercyandjustice

Re: Questioning certain teachings of the Church
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 05:58:17 AM »
Quote from: Nadir on February 06, 2019, 12:00:10 AM
Does this help?

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/the-biblical-roots-and-history-of-indulgences
Thanks for the link, but it didn't help too much. I still would like to know if indulgences were actually taught and believed in the early Church. It is starting to seem that indulgences began to be believed in the middle ages. Would it be a bad thing to admit this? And if you are wondering what made me question indulgences, it was this book:

https://archive.org/details/IndulgencesV3/page/n7

I haven't actually read the whole thing, but I've skimmed through the first several pages and it raised interesting points.


As for the teaching of temporal punishment: I know that praying and sacrificing for the dead, for their relief, is an ancient practice, and I've come to the conclusion that temporal punishment as we know it now is implicit in that belief.
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Questioning certain teachings of the Church
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 08:43:55 AM »
Quote from: Mercyandjustice on February 06, 2019, 05:58:17 AM
temporal punishment as we know it now is implicit in that belief.
The use of the term "implicit", is a red flag that one shapes teachings according to his own desires. With the use of the term implicit, one can turn black into white.
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Offline confederate catholic

Re: Questioning certain teachings of the Church
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 12:05:52 PM »
Indulgences came from canonical penalties attached to sin, the faithful would petition someone who had been condemned to death for the faith for a written guaranty that they would take the penalties on themselves. This was called an indulgence or a lessening of canonical penalties
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Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Questioning certain teachings of the Church
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 12:34:15 PM »
Temporal punishment (purgatory) is necessary to reconcile God's justice and mercy.

On the one hand, nothing defiled can enter heaven. Even a venial sin requires atonement. And forgiven sins require restitution. Would it be just for a murderer to repent and be forgiven by God and not have to do anything to atone for his sin (either in this life or in the next)?

What if it was your son that he murdered? I'm sure you'd see the need for the repentant sinner to do some kind of prayers, fasting, good works to make up for his sin. Such actions are also the natural, spontaneous fruits of true repentance (as St. John the Baptist pointed out). 

Like the analogy of the neighbor forgiving the boy for breaking a window with his baseball -- but nevertheless requiring him to pay for a new window. It is only just.

But if there were no purgatory, then a soul could be condemned to eternal Hell for one venial sin. Considering the weakness of our frame, that would be a real problem.

That's where God's mercy comes in. God is perfect justice AND perfect mercy.

 
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Offline forlorn

Re: Questioning certain teachings of the Church
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 02:27:14 PM »
Quote from: Matthew on February 06, 2019, 12:34:15 PM
Temporal punishment (purgatory) is necessary to reconcile God's justice and mercy.

On the one hand, nothing defiled can enter heaven. Even a venial sin requires atonement. And forgiven sins require restitution. Would it be just for a murderer to repent and be forgiven by God and not have to do anything to atone for his sin (either in this life or in the next)?

What if it was your son that he murdered? I'm sure you'd see the need for the repentant sinner to do some kind of prayers, fasting, good works to make up for his sin. Such actions are also the natural, spontaneous fruits of true repentance (as St. John the Baptist pointed out).

Like the analogy of the neighbor forgiving the boy for breaking a window with his baseball -- but nevertheless requiring him to pay for a new window. It is only just.

But if there were no purgatory, then a soul could be condemned to eternal Hell for one venial sin. Considering the weakness of our frame, that would be a real problem.

That's where God's mercy comes in. God is perfect justice AND perfect mercy.

 
The trouble I have with it though is prayers getting souls through Purgatory faster. Why do other people's prayers affect the cleansing of your soul? Wouldn't that mean you go through Purgatory faster just by being better liked and having more friends? I don't really understand it, and it niggles at the back of my mind whenever I say a prayer for souls in Purgatory.
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