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Offline Leisa

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Problems with the rosary?
« on: March 04, 2011, 11:09:35 AM »
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  • Is there anyone here who has some misgivings about the rosary?
    Has anyone had any negative or scary prayer experiences while praying the rosary?
    Does anyone have doubts about the rosary being an acceptable form of prayer given its repetitive nature?
    Does anyone have doubts about praying to Mary?

    I would like to hear what your thoughts are.

    Also, what interest do you think the devil has in the rosary if any?
    Would the devil want people to pray the rosary or not pray the rosary.  And if he doesn't want them to pray it, why?


    Offline SJB

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 11:25:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: Leisa
    Is there anyone here who has some misgivings about the rosary?
    Has anyone had any negative or scary prayer experiences while praying the rosary?
    Does anyone have doubts about the rosary being an acceptable form of prayer given its repetitive nature?
    Does anyone have doubts about praying to Mary?

    I would like to hear what your thoughts are.

    Also, what interest do you think the devil has in the rosary if any?
    Would the devil want people to pray the rosary or not pray the rosary.  And if he doesn't want them to pray it, why?


    If I'm not mistaken, Pope Leo XIII wrote at least 6 Papal Encyclicals on The Rosary. That should answer your question.

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13ro3.htm

    Quote
    COMMENDING DEVOTION TO THE ROSARY
    LAETITIAE SANCTAE

    Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII promulgated on September 8, 1893.

    To Our Venerable Brethren the Patriarchs, Primates, Archbishops, Bishops, and other Ordinaries, having Peace and Communion with the Apostolic See.

    Venerable Brethren, Greeting and Apostolic Benediction.

    The sacred joy which it has been given to Us to feel in attaining the fiftieth anniversary of Our Episcopal Consecration has been deepened by the knowledge that it was shared by the people of the whole Catholic world, and that as a father in the midst of his children We have been consoled by the touching testimonies of their loyalty and love. We gratefully accept it and record it as a fresh proof of God's special providence, and one which is markedly full of bounty to Ourselves, and of blessing to the Church.

    2. At the same time We love to offer Our thanks for this signal benefit to the august Mother of God, whose powerful intercession We feel to have been exercised in Our behalf. For hers is the loving kindness which, during the length of years and the vicissitudes of life, has never failed Us, and which day by day seems to draw nearer to Us than ever, filling Our soul with gladness, and strengthening Us with a confidence of which the surety is higher than the things of time. It is as if the voice of the heavenly Queen made itself heard to Us, at one moment graciously consoling Us in the midst of trials; at another guiding Us by her counsel in directing the great work of the salvation of souls; at another, urging Us to admonish the Christian people to advance in piety and in the practice of every virtue. For Us it is once more a joy as well as a duty to respond to her inspirations. Amongst the happy results which have already rewarded Our exhortations which were due to her prompting, We have to reckon the remarkable impulse given to the Devotion of the Most Holy Rosary. This awakening has made itself felt in the increased number of Confraternities instituted for the purpose, the voluminous literature of pious and learned works written upon the subject, and the manifold tributes which Christian art has not failed to bring to its service. And now, as if for yet another time, listening to the voice of the same zealous Mother, who calls upon Us to "cry out and cease not," We rejoice once more to address you, Venerable Brethren, upon the subject of the Rosary, standing as We do upon the eve of that month of October which, by the award of special Indulgences, We have deemed it well to dedicate to this most popular devotion. Our appeal to you, however, will not be directed so much to add any further recommendation of a method of prayer so praiseworthy in itself, nor yet to press upon the faithful the necessity of practicing it still more fervently, but rather to point out how we may draw from this devotion certain advantages which are especially valuable and needful at the present day.

    3. For We are convinced that the Rosary, if devoutly used, is bound to benefit not only the individual but society at large.

    ...

    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 11:40:42 AM »
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  • My thoughts are...

    ...found within the pages of The Secret of the Rosary -- read it.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 01:27:33 PM »
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  •   An answer to the objection that rosary is repetitive:
    http://www.fisheaters.com/vainrepetitions.html

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 02:06:01 PM »
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  • SJB's post put it best, I think. There is nothing wrong with praying to Mary. Unlike what the Protestants think, it does not mean we worship her, we just simply honor and love her like Jesus told us to.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Leisa

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 02:13:14 PM »
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  • SJB I am looking over the docuмents you gave me, thanks.  I will reply if any questions come up.
    Gladius Veritatis I have read that book. Thanks.
    Spouse of Jesus I read the page you gave me but it didn't reassure me because of the weight of Jesus's words and the fact that all of the examples that page gives precede the rosary, such as the bible and St. John Chrysostom, meaning, they do not address the rosary but all vain prayers,under which category the rosary could very well fall.

    From the webpage they say:
    That Christ Himself prayed in repetitions. Matthew 26:44: "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words". Mark 14:39 reads: "And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words."

    That is not praying in repetitions, this is from the Douay-Rheims

    And going a little further, he fell upon his face, praying, and saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this chalice pass from me. Nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. [40] And he cometh to his disciples, and findeth them asleep, and he saith to Peter: What? Could you not watch one hour with me?

    [41] Watch ye, and pray that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh weak. [42] Again the second time, he went and prayed, saying: My Father, if this chalice may not pass away, but I must drink it, thy will be done. [43] And he cometh again and findeth them sleeping: for their eyes were heavy. [44] And leaving them, he went again: and he prayed the third time, saying the selfsame word.


    If I come into a room and say a prayer, then leave the building and go down the road and converse with people there, then depart and go back and say another prayer..etc.. that is not a "repetitious" prayer.

    A repetitious prayer is saying the same thing over and over again without stopping.  It is not to say that you cannot say the same prayer several times in one day or one hour.  It is to say that you should not repeat the same sentence over and over thinking that by saying it 5 times instead of 1 time you are having more effect on God.

    Offline CathMomof7

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 04:22:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: Leisa
    Is there anyone here who has some misgivings about the rosary?
    Has anyone had any negative or scary prayer experiences while praying the rosary?
    Does anyone have doubts about the rosary being an acceptable form of prayer given its repetitive nature?
    Does anyone have doubts about praying to Mary?

    I would like to hear what your thoughts are.

    Also, what interest do you think the devil has in the rosary if any?
    Would the devil want people to pray the rosary or not pray the rosary.  And if he doesn't want them to pray it, why?


    The devil hates the Blessed Virgin Mary.  He hates the Rosary.  I recently heard a priest say that a daily Rosary is sure to keep the devil at bay.  It's made a huge difference in our lives.

    The repetition has helped my children learn their prayers.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 05:07:49 PM »
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  • The Rosary is the heavenly sent compedium of the holy Mysteries of our faith and the mirror of all virtues as exemplified in Our Lord and His most holy Mother: the best of what we ought to believe and to imitate are to be found in the Holy Rosary. Herein lies the great efficacy and excellence of this great prayer.

    Don't take my word for it. Listen to Rev. Father Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O. P., the sometime Professor of Dogma and Mystical Theology at the Angelicuм. This is from his book The Mother of The Savior and Our Interior Life, translated by Rev. Father Bernard J. Kelley (Dublin: Golden Eagle Books, Ltd., 1948; Imprimatur: + John Carol, Archbishop of Dublin and Primate of Ireland, 8 Dec. 1948).
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 05:38:39 PM »
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  • Here is more information on the recitation of the Holy Rosary found in Daily Breviary Meditations: Meditations for Every Day on the Scriptural Lessons of the Roman Breviary, in accordance with the Encyclical "Divino Afflante," written by His Excellency the Most Rev. Joseph Angrisani, Bishop of Casale-Monferrato, and translated by Rev. Father Joseph A. McMullin of St. Charles Seminary at Philadelphia, PA (New York: Benziger Brothers, Inc., 1954; Imprimatur + Francis Cardinal Spellman, Archbishop of New York, 1 January 1954).


    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Leisa

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #9 on: March 05, 2011, 09:37:26 AM »
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  • Thank you Hobbledehoy.

    The encyclicals are bringing up more questions.  For instance, how did Christians pray for 1200 (or 1300?) years before the rosary?

    And secondly, if Mary is indeed our "Mother" as Christ is our "Father and brother" (from Adiutricem) then why is there no records of Mary's life after Christ was crucified?  If she was so important to the apostles and the early communities how come we don't know anything about the rest of her life or her role in the spreading of the gospel?

    7. It is impossible to measure the power and scope of her offices since the day she was taken up to that height of heavenly glory in the company of her Son, to which the dignity and luster of her merits entitle her. From her heavenly abode she began, by God's decree, to watch over the Church, to assist and befriend us as our Mother; so that she who was so intimately associated with the mystery of human salvation is just as closely associated with the distribution of the graces which for all time will flow from the Redemption.

    Of course its impossible to measure!

    Doesn't all grace come from God?

    How does he get all that from Christ telling his mother "Woman, behold thy son." And to his disciple: "Behold thy mother."?

    I will continue to read the encyclicals for answers.  If anyone knows the answers to how Mary became so closely associated with the distribution of graces from heaven, please chime in.

    8. The power thus put into her hands is all but unlimited.

    Unlimited power!  wow.

    Offline Leisa

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #10 on: March 05, 2011, 09:55:08 AM »
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  • Adiutricem quotes Cyril of Alexandria, here is what I could find on Cyril of Alexandria-
    http://www.earlychurch.org.uk/cyrilalex.php

    CYRIL OF ALEXANDRIA was b. in Alexandria, towards the close of the fourth century, sand d. there in 444. After living for several years as a monk in the Nitrian Mountains, he succeeded his uncle Theophilus on the patriarchal chair of Alexandria, in 412. Like his predecessor, he distinguished himself by his violence against any deviation from what he considered orthodox faith. He expelled the Novatians from their church, and robbed their church-treasury; he led in person the mob which drove all Jєωs away from Alexandria in 415; and he took part, at least indirectly, in the foul murder of Hypatia. He became most notorious from his controversy with Nestorius, Patriarch of Constantinople. Nestorius refused to give to Mary the prædicate  this occasioned Cyril to write a treatise (429), explaining the union of the logos and the human nature in Christ, and the birth of the logos by Mary, and to issue an encyclic letter to the Egyptian monks, warning them against Nestorianism. The controversy between the two patriarchs soon became very excited; and both endeavored to gain the emperor, Theodosius II., and Pope Celestine, over on his side. Celestine finally decided against Nestorius, and commissioned Cyril to excommunicate him if he did not recant within ten days. Cyril consequently convened a synod at Alexandria, and the anathema was spoken against any one who refused to give to Mary the disputed prædicate. Nestorius answered with a counter-anathema, and both appealed to an ecuмenical synod. This, the third, was called by the emperor, at Ephesus, 431. But, before John of Antioch and his bishops arrived, the synod condemned Nestorius and his doctrine of the two natures in Christ. The Antiochian bishops (from thirty to forty) then formed an independent synod, and condemned Cyril; and the emperor confirmed both condemnations, - both that of Nestorius and that of Cyril. The party of the latter, however, succeeded in gaining over the emperor; and Cyril was re-instated in his see, while Nestorius was sent back to his monastery. A reconciliation was afterwards effected between Cyril and John of Antioch; but the former continued to look with suspicion at the Antiochian school, especially at Diodorus of Tarsus, and Theodorus of Mopsuestia, whom he eonsidered the true fathers of Nestorianism. Besides his dogmatical works, Cyril wrote ten books of Apologetics against Julian, and a number of homilies. His collected works have been edited by J. AUBERT, Paris, 1638, 4 vols. fol. his Life has been written by RENANDOT: Hist. Patriarcharum Alex., Paris, 1743; KOPALLIK: Cyrillus von Alexandria, Mainz, 1881.


    Offline Leisa

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 10:00:30 AM »
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  • From http://orthodoxwiki.org/Theotokos

    1. Adoption at the Third Ecuмenical Council

    As a title for the Virgin Mary, Theotokos was recognized by the Orthodox Church at Third Ecuмenical Council held at Ephesus in 431. It had already been in use for some time in the devotional and liturgical life of the Church. The theological significance of the title is to emphasize that Mary's son, Jesus, is fully God, as well as fully human, and that Jesus' two natures (divine and human) were united in a single Person of the Trinity. The competing view at that council was that Mary should be called Christotokos instead, meaning "Birth-giver to Christ." This was the view advocated by Nestorius, then Patriarch of Constantinople. The intent behind calling her Christotokos was to restrict her role to be only the mother of "Christ's humanity" and not his divine nature.

    Nestorius' view was anathematized by the Council as heresy, (see Nestorianism), since it was considered to be dividing Jesus into two distinct persons, one who was Son of Mary, and another, the divine nature, who was not. It was defined that although Jesus has two natures, human and divine, these are eternally united in one personhood. Because Mary is the mother of God the Son, she is therefore duly entitled Theotokos.

    Calling Mary the Theotokos or the Mother of God (Μητηρ Θεου) was never meant to suggest that Mary was coeternal with God, or that she existed before Jesus Christ or God existed. The Church acknowledges the mystery in the words of this ancient hymn: "He whom the entire universe could not contain was contained within your womb, O Theotokos."

    The title "Theotokos" continues to be used frequently in the hymns of the Orthodox Church.

    Offline SJB

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 02:09:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Leisa
    Thank you Hobbledehoy.

    The encyclicals are bringing up more questions.  For instance, how did Christians pray for 1200 (or 1300?) years before the rosary?

    And secondly, if Mary is indeed our "Mother" as Christ is our "Father and brother" (from Adiutricem) then why is there no records of Mary's life after Christ was crucified?  If she was so important to the apostles and the early communities how come we don't know anything about the rest of her life or her role in the spreading of the gospel?

    7. It is impossible to measure the power and scope of her offices since the day she was taken up to that height of heavenly glory in the company of her Son, to which the dignity and luster of her merits entitle her. From her heavenly abode she began, by God's decree, to watch over the Church, to assist and befriend us as our Mother; so that she who was so intimately associated with the mystery of human salvation is just as closely associated with the distribution of the graces which for all time will flow from the Redemption.

    Of course its impossible to measure!

    Doesn't all grace come from God?

    How does he get all that from Christ telling his mother "Woman, behold thy son." And to his disciple: "Behold thy mother."?

    I will continue to read the encyclicals for answers.  If anyone knows the answers to how Mary became so closely associated with the distribution of graces from heaven, please chime in.

    8. The power thus put into her hands is all but unlimited.

    Unlimited power!  wow.


    I don't believe you are reading anything  "for answers."
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Leisa

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 05:46:22 PM »
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  • I am not understanding the logic.  Mary is the Mother of God.  Does this mean that Mary is above God?  Or equal to God? Or not in any way equal to God?

    I understand that she is the Mother of Jesus who is the Son of God and part of the trinity, but when Mary is said to have "unlimited" power I find this very confusing.

    Mentally, if I ascribe to Mary unlimited power then she is on par with God, and how can that be?  She is not part of the trinity and Jesus did not pray to Mary when he was on the cross.  He doesn't even say to pray to Mary.

    I apologize if my questions irritate some Catholics.  But it doesn't make sense to me.

    I understand that Mary is special.  I understand that she is a saint.  But I don't understand her as being unlimited in her powers.  I can understand how Jesus is the Son of God because of the Resurrection and all the miracles he performed and all his teachings.  But Mary didn't come back from the dead. Mary didn't preach the gospel, she didn't heal the sick?

    How is it she has unlimited powers?  I simply do not understand this.

    Offline SJB

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    Problems with the rosary?
    « Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 06:21:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: Leisa
    I am not understanding the logic.  Mary is the Mother of God.  Does this mean that Mary is above God?  Or equal to God? Or not in any way equal to God?

    I understand that she is the Mother of Jesus who is the Son of God and part of the trinity, but when Mary is said to have "unlimited" power I find this very confusing.

    Mentally, if I ascribe to Mary unlimited power then she is on par with God, and how can that be?  She is not part of the trinity and Jesus did not pray to Mary when he was on the cross.  He doesn't even say to pray to Mary.

    I apologize if my questions irritate some Catholics.  But it doesn't make sense to me.

    I understand that Mary is special.  I understand that she is a saint.  But I don't understand her as being unlimited in her powers.  I can understand how Jesus is the Son of God because of the Resurrection and all the miracles he performed and all his teachings.  But Mary didn't come back from the dead. Mary didn't preach the gospel, she didn't heal the sick?

    How is it she has unlimited powers?  I simply do not understand this.


    You're not Catholic?
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil