Author Topic: Newly Baptised and Struggling (Read 2019 times)

Marulus Fidelis · « **Reply #60 on:** April 23, 2024, 12:02:35 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 23, 2024, 11:54:52 AM

Yes, i'm not suggesting a layman can make any decisions related to canon law. I'm suggesting (and i've known examples) where Trad priests investigated the matter and the person converted to the Faith and was "re-married" to a Trad. But the priest made the call.

I'm not sure whether a Trad priest would have the authority to do so. It's the question of whether supplied jurisdiction extends to governance. If we granted that, a trad bishop could have the power to excommunicate, which no one admits.

Angelus · « **Reply #61 on:** April 23, 2024, 02:17:05 PM »

StrivingCatholic needs to talk to a traditional priest about his marriage situation before coming to any conclusions.

Besides the Pauline Privilege exception. There are other situations that might be relevant.

For example, if the woman StrivingCatholic married was previously divorced (from a prior, valid civil marriage between her and another man), then StrivingCatholic's civil marriage to such a divorced woman would not have been valid in the eyes of the Church.

Nadir · « **Reply #62 on:** April 23, 2024, 03:35:18 PM »

Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on April 23, 2024, 10:07:44 AM

A priest's opinion doesn't give you certainty as you suggest, only the Church can give you certainty with a declaration of nullity, which is at present, unfortunately, unavailable. The SSPV is so indifferentist that it doesn't even require general confessions for people converting from the Novus Ordo. It's useless to gamble on the opinion of some priest and then if one doesn't like that priest's opinion he can go in search of another fallible opinion.

Catholic principles in this case are clear-cut and anyone can apply them for himself - unbaptized non-Catholics marry validly when they seek a civil marriage, that's certain, the question is only if that's what happened and StrivingCatholic knows that for himself. In any case, to go seek another marriage a declaration of nullity would be required, which he cannot get, since there is no competent authority to provide it at present.

In short, one can and should seek advice from knowledgeable priests or laymen, however, one can't go seek certainty from a priest's opinion.

P.S. The marriage is assumed valid until proven otherwise beyond any doubt, not the other way around.

And your opinion carries more weight than a priest's?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #63 on:** April 23, 2024, 04:07:17 PM »

Quote from: Nadir on April 23, 2024, 03:35:18 PM

And your opinion carries more weight than a priest's?

How are you reading this into what he said? What he was saying is what I've been saying for a long time, where the "seek the opinion of a priest" advice these days can be pretty lame, since there might be a different opinion for every priest that you ask, and no priest has the requisite authority. When the Church was in a normal state, you'd go to your diocesan chancery and get a ruling, and because they had the authority, even if they were wrong, you could safely in conscience follow that ruling. Not so with priests these days, who simply don't have the authority and might have a variety of opinions. And, in some (even many) cases, his opinion would carry more weight than that of a priest, since I know quite a few priests who, let's just say, barely passed seminary and have slightly better than a Baltimore Catechism knowledge of the faith. Apart from that, an old priest once visited STAS and he complained about all the priests who were just simple priests, having graduated the basic 6-year program, acting as if they were canon lawyers or theologians, whereas in normal times this sufficed only to be an associate pastor somewhere, and to be considered a legitimate authority in those other areas, one would to acquire advanced pontifical degrees. Heck, even in an organization like the SSPX, you couldn't just "go to a priest". Even they have some priests who are a bit more highly trained in the subject who might opine on the matter, and it would not be left up to the priest at your local chapel.

ElwinRansom1970 · « **Reply #64 on:** April 23, 2024, 04:49:01 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on April 23, 2024, 04:07:17 PM

Heck, even in an organization like the SSPX, you couldn't just "go to a priest". Even they have some priests who are a bit more highly trained in the subject who might opine on the matter, and it would not be left up to the priest at your local chapel.

One of the greatest acts of hubris that I encounter amongst some SSPX and sede priests is to refer to themselves as "pastors" and to the chapels at which minister as "parishes".

Also, I know that some FSSP priests [sic] possess pontifical degrees -- I am uncertain about ICKSP or IBP priests although it would make sense, but it is likewise über-hubris when the SSPX refers to this member priest as a theologian or that member priest as a canonist when all they may have is 5 to 6 years of seminary, sometimes straight out of high school.

Nadir · « **Reply #65 on:** April 23, 2024, 05:22:53 PM »

“Just go to a priest” are not my words. I merely asked the question,

Quote from: Nadir on April 23, 2024, 03:35:18 PM

And your opinion carries more weight than a priest's?

No more, no less!

StrivingCatholic · « **Reply #66 on:** **Yesterday** at 12:38:34 AM »

Quote from: St Giles on April 23, 2024, 12:01:28 PM

Don't lose hope. It's only another trial. All is worth it for an eternity with the infinite God. I have to say, I'm baffled by this recent development. Something just doesn't seem right. Surely there's some resolution in this current crisis in the church. Perhaps some sort of supplied jurisdiction for the case of this marriage to be judged if the authority of the apostates in Rome can't be trusted.

Read up on Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, his letters, speeches, sermons, and also Bishop Antonio de Castro Meyer. It's incredible they persevered against the Pope and their colleagues, but they knew they were thoroughly backed by the truth of Tradition.

God has brought you this far, even to this forum, don't stop now.

"But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?"

The news of the church being so divided when Jesus promised that no gates of Hell will prevail against it, being told that there is no leadership or power in the Church that can lead the laity or deal with my annulment, or we can't even trust priests....all these show me (a novice Catholic) that the fruits produced pertaining to these are strife, confusion and dissent, that or Jesus lied when he said no gates of Hell will prevail against the Church.

All these confusion, anguish and turmoil I face now that I am at the position that I either have faith in what He promised, or if I am not careful, I fear I might just abandon it all together again. Somehow I find it hard to believe that despite the politics, the trials of the Church and the human errors within the Church, that God would leave the leadership unmanned. The damage cause by the divisions among the laity and the Church is very devastating, and souls get lost due to such fruits.

That would not be love and mercy at all if the Chair of St Peter is redundant now, and letting the laity float around lost in confusion, while having to deal with their own afflictions in their daily lives. This whole thing opened a whole new can of worms, so yes something is definitely not right here, unfortunately.

Marulus Fidelis · « **Reply #67 on:** **Yesterday** at 02:27:54 AM »

Quote from: StrivingCatholic on Yesterday at 12:38:34 AM

The news of the church being so divided when Jesus promised that no gates of Hell will prevail against it, being told that there is no leadership or power in the Church that can lead the laity or deal with my annulment, or we can't even trust priests....all these show me (a novice Catholic) that the fruits produced pertaining to these are strife, confusion and dissent, that or Jesus lied when he said no gates of Hell will prevail against the Church.

All these confusion, anguish and turmoil I face now that I am at the position that I either have faith in what He promised, or if I am not careful, I fear I might just abandon it all together again. Somehow I find it hard to believe that despite the politics, the trials of the Church and the human errors within the Church, that God would leave the leadership unmanned. The damage cause by the divisions among the laity and the Church is very devastating, and souls get lost due to such fruits.

That would not be love and mercy at all if the Chair of St Peter is redundant now, and letting the laity float around lost in confusion, while having to deal with their own afflictions in their daily lives. This whole thing opened a whole new can of worms, so yes something is definitely not right here, unfortunately.

Precisely because the gates of hell cannot prevail do we have to conclude that these impostors are not the hierarchy.

You've used the term 'gates of Hell', but do you know what it means?

The gates fo Hell are defined as the "death-dealing tongues of heretics" or "the disputations of heretics".

If the Church were led by the notorious heretics leading the fake Novus Ordo Church, then that would mean the gates of Hell have prevailed.

But since that's impossible, the only possible conclusion is that they're not true popes and bishops of the Catholic Church.

With regard to the confusion, it's in line with the maxim "strike the shepherd and the sheep shall be scattered". It's just more evidence of the shepherd being missing.

Regarding your idea that God wouldn't allow this to happen, that's just your feeling, and as they say, facts don't care about your feelings.

Father Edmund James O'Reilly, The Relations of the Church to Society - Theological Essays, 1882, Page 287-288: "The great schism of the West suggests to me a reflection which I take the liberty of expressing here. If this schism had not occurred, the hypothesis of such a thing happening would appear to many chimerical. They would say it could not be; God would not permit the Church to come into so unhappy a situation.Heresies might spring up and spread and last painfully long, through the fault and to the perdition of their authors and abettors, to the great distress too of the faithful, increased by actual persecution in many places where the heretics were dominant. But that Catholics should be divided on the question of who was Pontiff, that the true Church should remain between thirty and forty years without a thoroughly ascertained Head, and representative of Christ on earth, this would not be. Yet it has been and we have no guarantee that it will not be again, though we may fervently hope other wise. What I would infer is, that we must not be too ready to pronounce on what God may permit. We know with absolute certainty that He will fulfil His promises; that He will not allow anything to occur at variance with them; that He will sustain His Church and enable her to triumph over all enemies and difficulties ; [...] But we, or our successors in future generations of Christians, shall perhaps see stranger evils than have yet been experienced, even before the immediate approach of that great winding up of all things on earth that will precede the day of judgment. I am not setting up for a prophet, nor pretending to see unhappy wonders, of which I have no knowledge whatever. All I mean to convey is that contingencies regarding the Church, not excluded by the Divine promises, cannot be regarded as practically impossible, because they would be terrible and distressing in a very high degree."

Marulus Fidelis · « **Reply #68 on:** **Yesterday** at 02:32:18 AM »

P. S. The fact that you have only now been made aware of your marital situation and that your "priest" hasn't told you anything about the matter should be an indication of who is of the Truth.

AMDGJMJ · « **Reply #69 on:** **Yesterday** at 05:14:08 AM »

Quote from: StrivingCatholic on Yesterday at 12:38:34 AM

The news of the church being so divided when Jesus promised that no gates of Hell will prevail against it, being told that there is no leadership or power in the Church that can lead the laity or deal with my annulment, or we can't even trust priests....all these show me (a novice Catholic) that the fruits produced pertaining to these are strife, confusion and dissent, that or Jesus lied when he said no gates of Hell will prevail against the Church.

All these confusion, anguish and turmoil I face now that I am at the position that I either have faith in what He promised, or if I am not careful, I fear I might just abandon it all together again. Somehow I find it hard to believe that despite the politics, the trials of the Church and the human errors within the Church, that God would leave the leadership unmanned. The damage cause by the divisions among the laity and the Church is very devastating, and souls get lost due to such fruits.

That would not be love and mercy at all if the Chair of St Peter is redundant now, and letting the laity float around lost in confusion, while having to deal with their own afflictions in their daily lives. This whole thing opened a whole new can of worms, so yes something is definitely not right here, unfortunately.

Try to not be too discouraged. We do live in dark times, but there is still hope.

The Israelites were exiled in Babylon for 70 years without a proper land or leader but God brought them out of it. It has been about the sams time for us since Vatican II. When the time is right He can easily do the same for us.

Please do not give up "fighting the good fight" and "running the good race" as Saint Paul would say. Look not back but keep your eyes focused on the goal, heaven.

There has never been a generation where there was not fighting or bickering. Such is the state of living in a fallen world. There is no perfect peace until one rests with God in Heaven.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #70 on:** **Yesterday** at 05:57:18 AM »

Quote from: StrivingCatholic on Yesterday at 12:38:34 AM

The news of the church being so divided when Jesus promised that no gates of Hell will prevail against it, being told that there is no leadership or power in the Church that can lead the laity or deal with my annulment, or we can't even trust priests....all these show me (a novice Catholic) that the fruits produced pertaining to these are strife, confusion and dissent, that or Jesus lied when he said no gates of Hell will prevail against the Church.

This has been foretold, that the Church would have to follow Christ in His Passion, that there would be a Great Apostasy or falling away right before the end times. People said that same thing about Christ, that He had failed and that Hell and death had prevailed ... until He rose from the dead. Our Lord Himself pointed out that His followers would have to suffer, even as He did, since a servant is not greater than his master, so it's also been foretold that the Church would have to undergo a similar Passion, when all would appear lost and the Church defeated. But these are appearances only.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #71 on:** **Yesterday** at 06:16:12 AM »

Quote from: StrivingCatholic on Yesterday at 12:38:34 AM

That would not be love and mercy at all if the Chair of St Peter is redundant now, and letting the laity float around lost in confusion, while having to deal with their own afflictions in their daily lives. This whole thing opened a whole new can of worms, so yes something is definitely not right here, unfortunately.

Many people who have been in the Church much longer than you have lost the faith due to deciding what would and what would not be "love and mercy at all." They experience some tragedy in life and decide that it's not "love and mercy", and then proceed to reject God and their faith. Everything with God is love and mercy, even if in our pea brains we don't realize it. Suffering allows for growth, and offers opportunity to grow in the faith. You need to have faith that everything that God does is perfectly compatible with the utmost love and mercy, even if we don't understand it now. I've had many things happen in my life where, at the time, it didn't make any sense, but then 10, 15, 20 years later it dawned on me, "NOW I see why this happened and why it was good." Whether we know the why or the how right now doesn't change the fact that we know that everything God does is always perfectly loving and merciful.

If a young child, say 3 or 4 years old, is told by his parents not to play in the street, and perhaps is even disciplined or punished as a deterrent against playing in the street, from their perspective his parents are mean, and always out to spoil their fun. They don't realize the dangers of playing in the street and that the parents are trying to keep him from getting hurt or killed. Or if a parent will not allow a child to eat cake and candy all day. He thinks, again, "my parents seem to have a mission in life just to ruin my fun". That's precisely where we stand vis-a-vis God, and the gap between us and God is infinitely greater than between these young children and their adult guardians. With our pea brains we sometimes can't comprehend why God allows something, but we have absolute faith that, whatever the reasons are, that we haven't figured out yet, they're good reasons and God is allowing everything to happen for our good.

Sacred Scripture is replete with descriptions about how gold is tested and purified in fire, explaining that sufferings are intended to strengthen and to purify. Unfortunately, the Novus Ordo instills in people an absurd false notion of "love and mercy" where everything needs to be all roses all the time ... and that is a completely false and absurdly shallow view of "love and mercy". If I see someone eating a piece of cake that has been poisoned, what is the more loving and merciful thing to do, to say, "I'll let him keep eating the cake because I don't want to deprive him of the pleasure of consuming that delicious cake." or I run over there and violently / abruptly slap it out of his hand before he can take a bite? This shallow Novus Ordo view of "love and mercy" is tantamount to holding that the first response, to let him eat the cake, is the "loving and merciful" one.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #72 on:** **Yesterday** at 07:59:12 AM »

Quote from: StrivingCatholic on April 18, 2024, 10:15:55 PM

Thank you Ladislaus. This is both enlightening and comforting at the same time, to know that what I am going through helps me to make progress in the spiritual life. I will need to remember that.

Currently, I am saying the Morning Offering, 3 O'clock Divine Mercy Chaplet and the Evening Offering as my starting point. The Rosary might prove too much for me at the moment and I fear I will give it up halfway again.

Thank you for the links! I will bookmark this, so I can get back to it.

The Rosary is a powerful weapon per Padre Pio. The Rosary and stations of the Cross are the way for a Catholic. The divine mercy chaplet should never replace the Holy Rosary (with 3 mysteries), Stations of the Cross and Douay Rheims Bible reading. The Holy Bible is God’s word and will help you in your life.

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Author Topic: Newly Baptised and Struggling (Read 2019 times)

Marulus Fidelis

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

Angelus

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

Nadir

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

Ladislaus

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

ElwinRansom1970

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

Nadir

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

StrivingCatholic

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

Marulus Fidelis

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

Marulus Fidelis

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

AMDGJMJ

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

Ladislaus

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

Ladislaus

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling

Viva Cristo Rey

Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling