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Traditional Catholic Faith => The Sacred: Catholic Liturgy, Chant, Prayers => Topic started by: Matthew on February 14, 2021, 09:15:23 PM

Title: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Matthew on February 14, 2021, 09:15:23 PM

Quote
Asking for prayers for a priest he knows who was found frozen in snow and tomorrow they are going to amputate both hands and feet.  They are praying for a miracle.   Father William Welsh and he is 67 yrs. Ex SSPX. 

From the Mailbag.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Merry on February 14, 2021, 09:26:41 PM
 :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: donkath on February 14, 2021, 09:36:19 PM
O dear!  Hail Marys.. :pray: :pray: :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Miseremini on February 14, 2021, 10:02:33 PM
 :pray:

In which country is Father?
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Nadir on February 14, 2021, 10:09:16 PM
 :pray: :pray: :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: 2Vermont on February 15, 2021, 04:07:05 AM
 :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Stubborn on February 15, 2021, 04:21:06 AM
 :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Mirari Vos on February 15, 2021, 04:32:00 AM
 :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: FlosCarmeli13 on February 15, 2021, 11:34:23 AM
Praying  :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: shin on February 15, 2021, 11:38:43 AM
Lord have mercy. Christ have mercy.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SeanJohnson on February 15, 2021, 11:46:36 AM
I believe he was once SSPX district superior for New Zealand or Australia?

Anyway, I met him once while I was still an indulterer at an ICK chapel in Rockford, IL in 2000.

He was independent then, and had stopped by to explore the ICK, and evidently decided against it (or the ICK did).  Anyway, he had made a favorable impression on me because I was working my way out of the ICK, having recently read some books by Lefebvre and Fahey, while he himself was still speaking openly and favorably about Lefebvre, despite exploring a potential apostolate with the ICK (generally a no-no).

He went out to his car and got a photo album and showed me many pics of Lefebvre which have never been published.  I am/was impressed that, despite living out of his car, he thought those photos important enough to keep.

Anyway, very sorry to hear this news.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Ladislaus on February 15, 2021, 11:56:09 AM
 :pray:

Thanks for the insight, Sean.  He was living out of his car?  What a difficult life he had remaining faithful to Tradition.  Many chapels would have loved to have him and given him a place to live.

Does anyone know how he ended up frozen like that?
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SeanJohnson on February 15, 2021, 12:01:07 PM
:pray:

Thanks for the insight, Sean.  He was living out of his car?  What a difficult life he had remaining faithful to Tradition.  Many chapels would have loved to have him and given him a place to live.

Does anyone know how he ended up frozen like that?
I think he ended up being a chaplain at Thomas A. Nelson’s private chapel at TAN Books (also located in Rockford, IL back then), but not sure for how long, or where he went after that.
Yes, I also am wondering how he ended up frozen outside.  Sheesh.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Ladislaus on February 15, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
I think he ended up being a chaplain at Thomas A. Nelson’s private chapel at TAN Books (also located in Rockford, IL back then), but not sure for how long, or where he went after that.
Yes, I also am wondering how he ended up frozen outside.  Sheesh.

I bet that even today many priests of the SSPX have stayed put instead of joining the Resistance simply because they were afraid to strike out on their own not knowing where their next meal would come from or how they would be supported.  It's difficult to end up being a wanderer like that.  I did wander like that myself a few years, and I know it's a very uncomfortable place to be.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Yeti on February 15, 2021, 03:45:55 PM
Does anyone know how he ended up frozen like that?
.
Maybe from living in a car? :confused:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Miseremini on February 15, 2021, 04:37:31 PM
If Father is still a wanderer living from his car, who will support/take care of him when he's released from the hospital?

Maybe this is one time Go Fund Me could/should be employed.

Surely there are enough trads to support Father.

An opportunity for trads to put their money where their mouth is.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SimpleMan on February 15, 2021, 04:44:29 PM
If Father is still a wanderer living from his car, who will support/take care of him when he's released from the hospital?

Maybe this is one time Go Fund Me could/should be employed.

Surely there are enough trads to support Father.

An opportunity for trads to put their money where their mouth is.
Let's do it.  I'm in for a modest amount (all I can manage right now, my car may be dying and I may need to go ahead and get that used Camry I've been talking about on here).
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Ladislaus on February 15, 2021, 04:47:03 PM
I agree and would contribute.  Unfortunately we don’t have any details.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Miseremini on February 15, 2021, 05:00:08 PM
Father will be in the hospital for a while.  If Matthew could find out details for us we could be ready by the time he is in rehab.
Also CI members often mention other sites they are on.  Maybe they would post elsewhere when it is set up.

First we have to find out who Father has appointed his next of kin/guardian at the hospital so they can be put on the Go Fund Me site as this is who Father obviously trusts.

I think Father will be in a nursing home the rest of his life.
Will they demand the money from Go Fund Me?

Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SeanJohnson on February 15, 2021, 05:14:48 PM
For clarity, it was 21 years ago that Fr. was living out of his car, and I would presume that was an interim situation after he left the SSPX and landed somewhere else.  I doubt he was living out of his car when he was chaplain for Tom Nelson, and wherever he landed after that, but who knows.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SimpleMan on February 15, 2021, 05:23:18 PM
Father will be in the hospital for a while.  If Matthew could find out details for us we could be ready by the time he is in rehab.
Also CI members often mention other sites they are on.  Maybe they would post elsewhere when it is set up.

First we have to find out who Father has appointed his next of kin/guardian at the hospital so they can be put on the Go Fund Me site as this is who Father obviously trusts.

I think Father will be in a nursing home the rest of his life.
Will they demand the money from Go Fund Me?
If I am understanding the situation correctly, when someone has to go into a nursing home, first, they take everything you have --- Social Security, any assets aside from the primary residence owned free and clear (I doubt he would have all that much), pension, whatever --- as well as, I would assume, anything you come into (such as GoFundMe proceeds, though those could be donated to a third party) --- and only when you are flat broke, penniless, then Medicare kicks in, and the invalid can't simply be put out on the street.  Bottom line, the nursing home gets their money, as long as there's any money there left to get.  Supposedly (IANA lawyer), your primary residence, if you own one, if sheltered for the remainder of your life, but when you die, they get any money they need from the proceeds of the estate.

And that's why I pay $29 every month for long term care insurance through Aetna.  It seems like money wasted... until it's not.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Miseremini on February 15, 2021, 05:56:10 PM
If I am understanding the situation correctly, when someone has to go into a nursing home, first, they take everything you have --- Social Security, any assets aside from the primary residence owned free and clear (I doubt he would have all that much), pension, whatever --- as well as, I would assume, anything you come into (such as GoFundMe proceeds, though those could be donated to a third party) --- and only when you are flat broke, penniless, then Medicare kicks in, and the invalid can't simply be put out on the street.  Bottom line, the nursing home gets their money, as long as there's any money there left to get.  Supposedly (IANA lawyer), your primary residence, if you own one, if sheltered for the remainder of your life, but when you die, they get any money they need from the proceeds of the estate.

And that's why I pay $29 every month for long term care insurance through Aetna.  It seems like money wasted... until it's not.
I think you're on to something with a third party.  My husband tells me Go Fund Me even takes a good chunk from the donations.
Surely Father was in touch with other independent priests.  Perhaps one of them would be willing to administer a trust fund for Father.....  as long as it isn't Father Pfeiffer.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SeanJohnson on February 15, 2021, 06:45:20 PM
I sure hope whomever wrote to Matthew about Fr. will provide some additional details about his condition, and how we can help.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SimpleMan on February 16, 2021, 11:01:17 AM
I think you're on to something with a third party.  My husband tells me Go Fund Me even takes a good chunk from the donations.
Surely Father was in touch with other independent priests.  Perhaps one of them would be willing to administer a trust fund for Father.....  as long as it isn't Father Pfeiffer.
Whoever runs GoFundMe has to pay the various expenses (including salaries, if they have employees) one way or the other.

As far as I am aware, a voluntary third party couldn't be touched.  If Joe Blow comes in and pays a patient's nursing home bill, as I always say, IANA lawyer, but I'd say they're just happy to get the money.  I don't think they could hunt down Joe Blow and say "hey, looks like you've got some skin in this game, what else do you have, that we could have a claim to?".

They do manage to take everything you have, if that's what it takes to pay the bill, and nursing homes aren't cheap.

In some countries --- France comes immєdιαtely to mind, the masses there have never been known to be shrinking violets (not hardly) when it comes to matters of the public welfare --- now that's something they'd be rioting and storming the halls of government over.  And they would burn cars in the streets, that's something they like to do.  But not here, in the land of "it's all about the Benjamins" --- if they want your money, they'll take your money.  And nobody utters a peep, because they just take it for granted that this is the way things are, and that it's okay.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Nadir on February 16, 2021, 09:19:21 PM
Is there a progress report on Father, and did the amputations have go ahead?
:pray: :pray: :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Matthew on February 17, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
I just heard from the same guy in my e-mail --


Quote
Don’t let up with prayers, still no surgery yet, waiting to see if / will  recover.  Looks like there’s a crack in the foundation now since from what I understood they were to have removed his hand/feet yesterday and they still haven’t. What made the doctors decide to “hold off” with the amputations?   Don’t get lax, keep up the prayers and offerings! We’re not out of the woods yet.  I hope it doesn’t come down to any limbs being removed.   
S.

Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: shin on February 17, 2021, 01:05:10 PM
May God please help him. My heart goes out to him.

+ + +
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Mirari Vos on February 17, 2021, 01:15:07 PM
 :pray: :pray: :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Stubborn on February 17, 2021, 01:25:26 PM
 :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Nadir on February 17, 2021, 03:17:49 PM
Quote
Don’t let up with prayers, still no surgery yet, waiting to see if / will  recover.  Looks like there’s a crack in the foundation now since from what I understood they were to have removed his hand/feet yesterday and they still haven’t. What made the doctors decide to “hold off” with the amputations?   Don’t get lax, keep up the prayers and offerings! We’re not out of the woods yet.  I hope it doesn’t come down to any limbs being removed.   
S.
Thank you, S and Matthew, for that. I felt sure that such drastic measures could  be avoided in this day and age.  :pray: :pray: :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Matthew on February 17, 2021, 05:26:10 PM
From a different person, another local:


Quote
Fr. Welsh's hands and feet have not been amputated and there is no surgery scheduled for him (as of 2/16).

I believe the hospital staff is doing a "wait and see" to monitor his healing. Fr. Welsh may eventually need to have one or more digits removed.

[The original email] is from a man who visited Fr. Welsh in the hospital and spoke with the nursing staff.

Thanks for your prayers. Please keep Fr. Welsh in your prayers.

Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: donkath on February 17, 2021, 07:21:26 PM
 :pray: :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: MMagdala on February 19, 2021, 05:32:18 PM
I have been praying for this priest and he is often in my thoughts.  Does anyone have an update?
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Matthew on February 19, 2021, 05:57:34 PM
I have been praying for this priest and he is often in my thoughts.  Does anyone have an update?

I will post any updates I receive. Apparently Fr. Welsh is still in my hometown, which is why I have a few contacts there. Interestingly, the original e-mail came from a guy I've never met IRL. I didn't know he was in that geographic area. I just knew I was on his "list" as I'm on many peoples "lists". I don't know how I get on most e-mail lists. It just happens I guess.

Anyhow, I will pass along any updates as soon as I receive them.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Matthew on February 22, 2021, 10:48:41 AM
From the original e-mail author:


Quote
Still no sensation in his hand nor feet, so as of now it doesn’t look good so time is running out, so prayers have to continue. 
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: FlosCarmeli13 on February 22, 2021, 11:37:07 AM
Thanks for the update.
:pray: :pray: :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Nishant Xavier on February 22, 2021, 11:53:54 AM
 :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: 54rosary on February 22, 2021, 12:06:02 PM
 :pray:
Our next Rosary will be for Father Welsh.

Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: MyrnaM on February 22, 2021, 12:11:50 PM
Always so much to pray for, it is good that Our God is not limited in the amount we can pray for.  

:incense:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Mirari Vos on February 22, 2021, 12:13:49 PM
 :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: shin on February 22, 2021, 02:02:33 PM
Kyrie eleison.

Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: MMagdala on February 23, 2021, 01:51:36 PM
Thank you, Matthew.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Matthew on February 26, 2021, 10:49:16 PM

Quote
Just found out today some sketchy details that he is declining amputations and he and a friend are searching for a nursing facility that will take him in to see if his situation improves there. 
Keep praying that Gods Will be done in his life. Keep me posted if you hear anything as well!

Steve

Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Gail on February 26, 2021, 11:19:29 PM
"I believe he was once SSPX district superior for New Zealand or Australia?"

Fr. Welsh was the rector of the seminary in Australia in the early days. He was also prior of Our Lady of Perpetual Succour & St. Andrew's Church Hampton Victoria at a later date. 

May Our Lady of Perpetual Succour intercede for this poor priest. 
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: FlosCarmeli13 on February 27, 2021, 11:19:03 AM
Still praying
:pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Matthew on March 17, 2021, 11:26:09 PM
Here is a bit of info on Fr. Welsh, received via e-mail: (Everything below this line is from the email)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Besides the information below, I also heard from another source that he may be interested in transferring to another nursing home in Florida.


----- Forwarded Message --
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 10:59:17 AM EDT
Subject: Any news on Fr. Welsh?

Hi Ray,
Last I heard, about a week ago he’s is still trying his luck hoping his limbs will return back to normal. He is in some nursing home type facility near Chicago.  A Dr. that works with frostbite patients stops in to see him every now and then.

Subject: Any news on Fr. Welsh?
 
Dear S,
 
   Did he ever get out of the hospital and make it into a nursing home? Any signs that the damaged tissue is beginning to heal?
 
    Thanks,
      R
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: MMagdala on March 18, 2021, 01:35:06 AM
Thank you for this update.  I am continuing to pray.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: shin on April 21, 2021, 09:56:49 PM
 :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Matthew on April 30, 2021, 02:41:18 AM

I got an update today. NOTE: This is all I know. Just passing on the entire bit of news as I received it.

Quote
Suppose Steve told you he had to have all fingers and toes removed. 
He is confined to a wheel chair.
Poor man.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Minnesota on April 30, 2021, 04:04:01 AM
Sad that he likely can't say Mass anymore. He could probably preach, but that's it.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Stubborn on April 30, 2021, 04:30:17 AM
 :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on April 30, 2021, 06:11:14 AM
 :pray: :pray: :pray:
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SimpleMan on April 30, 2021, 07:15:04 AM
Sad that he likely can't say Mass anymore. He could probably preach, but that's it.
I'm not clear on what is going on here.  Has Fr Welsh had to have his fingers and toes removed, or is that just something that is a possibility?

And I ask in all ignorance, if a priest is disfigured in that manner, does traditional canon law make any allowance for his celebrating Mass?  Must he actually touch the sacred species, or in such cases, could they merely be placed on the altar by an acolyte, and perhaps allow a deacon to distribute Holy Communion in the priest's stead?  Or must the rubrics be strictly followed, which would preclude the priest from saying Mass?

Obviously he would still be able to preach and hear confessions, as well as bless the faithful and bless items for sacred use, and possibly baptize using some kind of prostheses.

FWIW, the Newchurch would be untroubled by such things --- I have even heard of a nonverbal priest (autistic) being able to celebrate the New Mass in some fashion.  I can't find a reference for that, but I did find this regarding ASL:

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/69451/can-a-priest-give-a-mass-in-american-sign-language-asl-what-does-he-do-when-h

Rolling of the eyes here... :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: ... has anybody else ever noticed how desperate they are to ordain anyone they possibly can?

Incidentally, my own dear father, in his ongoing decline, is no longer able to speak, so no one should accuse me of sneering at the speech-impaired (not that anyone here would do this).  Nonetheless, if he were a priest (ordained widowed man), he obviously would not be able to celebrate Mass, and both he and everyone else would (or should) be at peace with that.  (I mean to say, he would, and they should.  He is for all practical purposes a sedevacantist of the Savonarola stripe --- "this man is no pope!" --- not so much an appeal to technical issues, as common sense.)
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Ladislaus on April 30, 2021, 07:52:44 AM
Sad that he likely can't say Mass anymore. He could probably preach, but that's it.

Well, he could privately offer Mass with assistance, where another priest would help him.
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SimpleMan on April 30, 2021, 09:50:07 AM
Well, he could privately offer Mass with assistance, where another priest would help him.
I hadn't thought of that, but my question then would be, does the celebrating priest actually have to touch the large host and the chalice with his fingers (obviously he does not touch each and every host in the ciborium, yet they are all consecrated), and does he have to elevate the consecrated host and the chalice?  I refer not so much to validity, as I refer to licitness according to traditional rubrics.

And he would actually have to be the priest celebrating, as the TLM is not concelebrated (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that).
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Ladislaus on April 30, 2021, 12:36:13 PM
I hadn't thought of that, but my question then would be, does the celebrating priest actually have to touch the large host and the chalice with his fingers (obviously he does not touch each and every host in the ciborium, yet they are all consecrated), and does he have to elevate the consecrated host and the chalice?  I refer not so much to validity, as I refer to licitness according to traditional rubrics.

And he would actually have to be the priest celebrating, as the TLM is not concelebrated (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that).

He's supposed to touch the host and elevate the host and ciborium, but that's the NORMAL rule and concessions have always been made for circuмstances such as this.  I wasn't referring to a concelebration but physical assistance.  Priests are also supposed to genuflect and do other things, but priests who cannot were allowed to offer Mass sitting down, etc.

Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: Minnesota on April 30, 2021, 12:40:17 PM
He's supposed to touch the host and elevate the host and ciborium, but that's the NORMAL rule and concessions have always been made for circuмstances such as this.  I wasn't referring to a concelebration but physical assistance.  Priests are also supposed to genuflect and do other things, but priests who cannot were allowed to offer Mass sitting down, etc.
Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks for the clarification
Title: Re: Prayers for Fr. William Welsh - quadruple amputation imminent
Post by: SimpleMan on April 30, 2021, 01:06:30 PM
He's supposed to touch the host and elevate the host and ciborium, but that's the NORMAL rule and concessions have always been made for circuмstances such as this.  I wasn't referring to a concelebration but physical assistance.  Priests are also supposed to genuflect and do other things, but priests who cannot were allowed to offer Mass sitting down, etc.
Thanks for the information.  I didn't know if the pre-V2 Church made such exceptions, or if the Mass had to be celebrated strictly according to the rubrics.  I thought I remembered one of the North American Martyrs getting a dispensation from Rome to celebrate Mass even though his fingers were mutilated by the natives, indicating to me, that in the absence of such a dispensation, he would have been considered physically irregular for celebrating Mass.

I know that nowadays, "anything goes" (except such things as questioning V2, whether the promulgation of the NOM was a good idea, or even whether the occupant of the papal chair at any given point is actually the Pope), and the Newchurch bends over backwards to accommodate every impediment that a priest could possibly have for the celebration of Mass, but I wasn't sure whether any such exceptions (aside from very minor, common-sense ones) were made "back in the day".