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Author Topic: The Literal Translation of Latin Prayers and Hymns  (Read 473 times)

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Offline St Giles

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The Literal Translation of Latin Prayers and Hymns
« on: June 20, 2023, 06:15:38 PM »
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  • I am far from skilled and knowledgeable when it comes to language, but I am often disappointed when I read the english translation of prayers and hymns. I am all for maintaining smooth readability and rhyme and other poetic characteristics if possible without losing a speck of the precise meaning, but that just isn't practical when it comes to translation, and it isn't necessary when it comes to the purpose of the words (expressing a particular meaning). We don't adore the tabernacle or its veil, nor the ciborium inside or its veil. We adore what is inside all of that, what looks like nothing spectacular, just ordinary bread in appearance, but has the true substance of Jesus Christ in an appearance more pleasant than a brutally tortured naked body, yet nothing compared to His glorified risen body. So let's not let good appearances corrupt or hinder the meaning of the prayers we say or the hymns we sing. I have attempted to translate some verses in a literal sense as I come across them with my poor understanding of Latin, and I often find much greater simplicity and profoundness in the meaning than what the English words say. 

    For those of us who are not Latin experts, I would like this thread to contain, as literal as practical, translations to common prayers, hymns, sequences, ect. They don't have to be in English, for those who visit this website who speak another language as their primary language. My intention is that with these translations kept in mind, we may better understand what we read/say/sing in Latin, or to recite for private use, not to change the common translations of hymns.

    For those who are Latin experts, please feel free to give your translations, though I really should try translating a few so that I will learn some Latin.

    On a side note, I think for an official use of translations into the vernacular, which would be rare among Traditional Latin Mass goers, they have to be approved by the appropriate authority for each translation. If I remember correctly I saw such a note in a missal regarding the allowable English translation of the renewal of baptismal promises to be used during the Pascal Vigil.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Literal Translation of Latin Prayers and Hymns
    « Reply #1 on: June 20, 2023, 07:40:42 PM »
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  • Why don't you start by posting one you'd be interested in?  There are so many, and it's a very open-ended question.  It's not easy to translate something when the requirement is to keep the precise meaning and retain the rhyme or even the meter.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: The Literal Translation of Latin Prayers and Hymns
    « Reply #2 on: June 20, 2023, 07:52:33 PM »
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  •   It's not easy to translate something when the requirement is to keep the precise meaning and retain the rhyme or even the meter.
    I know, that's basically what I was saying, so throw out the rhyme and meter. I'll give one a shot and post it, but an example would be the Stabat Mater Dolorosa or the Veni Sancti Spiritus sequence from Pentecost, or O Salutaris Hostia.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Literal Translation of Latin Prayers and Hymns
    « Reply #3 on: June 20, 2023, 11:23:18 PM »
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  • I know, that's basically what I was saying, so throw out the rhyme and meter. I'll give one a shot and post it, but an example would be the Stabat Mater Dolorosa or the Veni Sancti Spiritus sequence from Pentecost, or O Salutaris Hostia.

    Ah, yes.  Those are quite the challenge precisely because they're translated so they can be sung, have some rhyme, etc.

    So, here's the Stabat Mater, for instance.  This is actually a very clever attempt.  It keeps both the meter and the rhyming scheme, where the first two lines of each stanza rhyme with each other, and then the last line of one stanza rhymes with the last line of the next stanza.

    https://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/BVM/SMDolorosa.html