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Author Topic: Alternatives to The Chosen?  (Read 13619 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: Alternatives to The Chosen?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2024, 04:28:41 PM »
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  • This will probably show my ignorance on the topic, but do the "pains of childbirth" wrt Original Sin necessarily include all that happens prior to the actual birth? 

    Was Mary free of all physical pain?  It seems to me that she would still experience pain if she cut her finger, for example.

    As for the movie Jesus of Nazareth, it's been a long time since I've seen it, but I think the portrayed 'pain' she underwent was related to what came before the actual birth while traveling to Bethlehem, not the actual birth.

    Side note: absolutely loved the actress who played the Virgin Mary. My favorite.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Alternatives to The Chosen?
    « Reply #16 on: March 11, 2024, 04:44:07 PM »
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  • This will probably show my ignorance on the topic, but do the "pains of childbirth" wrt Original Sin necessarily include all that happens prior to the actual birth? 

    Was Mary free of all physical pain?  It seems to me that she would still experience pain if she cut her finger, for example.

    As for the movie Jesus of Nazareth, it's been a long time since I've seen it, but I think the portrayed 'pain' she underwent was related to what came before the actual birth while traveling to Bethlehem, not the actual birth.

    Side note: absolutely loved the actress who played the Virgin Mary. My favorite.

    I believe it’s the common opinion that Our Lord passed through her womb in the same manner that He passed through the doors of the room where the Apostles were meeting after His resurrection. Thus, she experienced no pain and her virginal integrity was kept completely intact.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Univocity

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    Re: Alternatives to The Chosen?
    « Reply #17 on: March 11, 2024, 08:41:10 PM »
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  • This will probably show my ignorance on the topic, but do the "pains of childbirth" wrt Original Sin necessarily include all that happens prior to the actual birth? 

    Was Mary free of all physical pain?  It seems to me that she would still experience pain if she cut her finger, for example.

    As for the movie Jesus of Nazareth, it's been a long time since I've seen it, but I think the portrayed 'pain' she underwent was related to what came before the actual birth while traveling to Bethlehem, not the actual birth.

    Side note: absolutely loved the actress who played the Virgin Mary. My favorite.
    I think yes the pains of childbirth include those leading up to it.  But I suppose you could distinguish.  Either way, if Our Lady had the gift of integrity, her freedom from pain was subject to her will. So she could will to accept the pains.  And also, not all of the curses of the Fall were things intrinsically tied to sin. For instance Adam was commanded to work/tend the garden prior to sin.  Yet after sin work takes on the aspect of a curse.  Likewise death is natural to man (Adam and Eve were preserved from it by a praeternatural gift), yet after sin it took on the aspect of a curse.  Now prior to sin Adam and Eve had integrity, so they would not have experienced involuntary pain.  Yet this too was a praeternatural gift superadded to their Sanctifying Grace in original justice.  Our Lady's sinlessness does not necessarily entail the praeternatural gifts, and relatively few theologians assert that it does.  I do think it is better to say she didn't suffer pains in this regard.  But Lad's point is valid insofar as it is possible that she choose to suffer these things.  It is still scandalous to depict it in a film though because most faithful would not know these distinctions and would assume the film is saying the Mother of God was cursed for original sin.  This is clear, since even many of the relatively well informed members of this forum drew this conclusion.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Alternatives to The Chosen?
    « Reply #18 on: March 13, 2024, 08:20:33 PM »
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  • May God bless you and keep you