Author Topic: Only you can praise yourself..... (Read 983 times)

spouse of Jesus · « **on:** January 10, 2010, 02:05:26 PM »

I have hread a pray like this. It is not originally catholic, maybe some ordinary man made it. Is it licit to use it?

O God, I cannot praise you as you deserve, only you can praise yourself properly, so praise yourself O God.

I wonder if it is another one of those things which they took from catholicism?

littlerose · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2010, 06:57:56 PM »

That looks like gobbledygoo to me. It seems to lean towards those heresies about God being completely unconnected and impersonal to humans, I would avoid it.

Stick with the tried & true prayer forms unless you are praying personally for your own needs in conversation with God, and you can't go wrong.

This afternoon we received a good homily on prayer. The priest said there are five forms in the Catholic tradition: open with making the sign of the cross to set your prayers apart from other thoughts or speech, then pray the "Apostle's Creed" to place yourself in the Church community of faith, then the "Our Father" to acnowledge the teaching of Jesus, then the "Hail Mary" to express love and devotion to our Mother and ask her protection and intercession, (and this is where I would insert personal conversational prayer stating my intentions of who or what I am praying for) then close with the "Glory Be" and make the sign of the Cross before returning to more worldly matters.

Father said this prevents us from slipping off into all the other approaches that lead us astray. This homily was delivered at the Latin traditional Mass today in Austin.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2010, 08:55:16 PM »

Superficially and at a glance, your prayer, spouse, reminds me of certain prayers where we offer to God His own merits. But it is actually evil, in my opinion, and here's why.

In a certain sense, when we praise God, it is God praising Himself. It is only by God's grace that we are able to gain enough insight into God to be able to praise Him properly. I often think about how, when Christ quoted the prophets, He was really quoting Himself, since the prophets spoke through God the Father, who is the first person of the Trinity just as Christ is the second.

That is why He said "You can do nothing without me." It's not an insult; it's a flat fact. He created everything, all matter in the universe emanates from Him, as does heaven itself, which I'm guessing has no physical matter as we know it. Without His grace, we are blind, unable to praise God or love God, or even to truly love ourselves, since how can you love yourself while denying the one who created you for eternal bliss?

But there is something else to take into consideration -- free will. None of us really HAVE to praise God. We WANT to. That is how he knows our love is genuine. And God is extremely possessive and demanding when it comes to our love. You see this constantly throughout the Bible: God is a jealous God, if you love your father or mother more than Him you aren't worthy of Him, the commandment above all commandments is to love God with your whole heart and whole mind, and so on. He not only wants our love, but He demands it; if you don't love Him enough, He'll send you to hell.

We cannot praise Him unless He gives us the grace to do so. But we can also reject that grace. Those who don't reject grace, who have faith and who do His will, therefore, become sons and daughters of God. And these sons and daughters of God, to varying degrees, pour out praise upon Him, because they are so thankful for what He did for us on the Cross, offering us the possibility of eternal life. This praise is totally genuine, it comes from true appreciation, from free will.

This is why that prayer is so dangerous, spouse. It really does damage to the free will by which we choose to praise God -- which He LOVES. He created us for exactly that reason! All who are in heaven praise God continually, through music even. He doesn't say "Shut up, I'm trying to praise myself and you're annoying me with that racket."

That prayer of yours sounds like false humility, really passivity and non-action, an error which you may have a tendency towards, spouse. There's something negative and masochistic about it. We are here to actively serve God. When God says "You can do nothing without me," He doesn't mean "You can do nothing so just give up." He means "You need me to do good works because without me you wouldn't even know what good works are."

CM · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2010, 02:10:23 AM »

Mike some of what you've said in this post smacks of pantheism, believe it or not! Let me show you how it could be taken by some careless soul:

Quote from: Raoul76

In a certain sense, when we praise God, it is God praising Himself.

Because every man is God (which is false and I know you don't hold).

Quote

It is only by God's grace that we are able to gain enough insight into God to be able to praise Him properly. I often think about how, when Christ quoted the prophets, He was really quoting Himself, since the prophets spoke through God the Father,

Minor slip up, I know you meant God the Father spoke through the prophets.

Quote

who is the first person of the Trinity just as Christ is the second.

That is why He said "You can do nothing without me." It's not an insult; it's a flat fact. He created everything, all matter in the universe emanates from Him,

"Emanates" is a technically incorrect choice of words. God is NOT the source of all the matter in the universe, He is the Cause. There is a difference. Otherwise we'd all be God. God is the source of virtue and all holiness, though, certainly.

Quote

as does heaven itself, which I'm guessing has no physical matter as we know it.

If by "as we know it" you mean subject to corruption, then this is correct. I can't cite anything specific at the moment, but I believe heaven contains physical matter, ie: a place for the bodies of the the just which shall one day be reunited with their souls.

I'm just waiting for oldavid to come by and say "Blardy lawyers!"

:rolleyes:

As for the rest of your post:

Quote

Without His grace, we are blind, unable to praise God or love God, or even to truly love ourselves, since how can you love yourself while denying the one who created you for eternal bliss?

But there is something else to take into consideration -- free will. None of us really HAVE to praise God. We WANT to. That is how he knows our love is genuine. And God is extremely possessive and demanding when it comes to our love. You see this constantly throughout the Bible: God is a jealous God, if you love your father or mother more than Him you aren't worthy of Him, the commandment above all commandments is to love God with your whole heart and whole mind, and so on. He not only wants our love, but He demands it; if you don't love Him enough, He'll send you to hell.

We cannot praise Him unless He gives us the grace to do so. But we can also reject that grace. Those who don't reject grace, who have faith and who do His will, therefore, become sons and daughters of God. And these sons and daughters of God, to varying degrees, pour out praise upon Him, because they are so thankful for what He did for us on the Cross, offering us the possibility of eternal life. This praise is totally genuine, it comes from true appreciation, from free will.

This is why that prayer is so dangerous, spouse. It really does damage to the free will by which we choose to praise God -- which He LOVES. He created us for exactly that reason! All who are in heaven praise God continually, through music even. He doesn't say "Shut up, I'm trying to praise myself and you're annoying me with that racket."

That prayer of yours sounds like false humility, really passivity and non-action, an error which you may have a tendency towards, spouse. There's something negative and masochistic about it. We are here to actively serve God. When God says "You can do nothing without me," He doesn't mean "You can do nothing so just give up." He means "You need me to do good works because without me you wouldn't even know what good works are."

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Raoul76 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2010, 06:32:08 AM »

CM · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2010, 02:22:11 PM »

I know you're not "seduced" by pantheism Mike, I was simply pointing out the potentially troublesome wording, for the sake of diligence.

And while it is true that there is no good at all "according to God" that we can do without grace, it does not follow that every action done by free will without the aid of grace is a sin.

I certainly didn't see this come across in your post. Your post was entirely and absolutely true on this point.

When you said "true love" I took it to mean "Divine charity" which is indeed the true love, rather than natural charity or natural love.