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Author Topic: Newly Baptised and Struggling  (Read 14723 times)

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Offline TheRealMcCoy

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Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2024, 10:48:15 AM »
Isn't there the Pauline/Petrine privelege for marriage, where if a person converts to the Faith and his unbaptized spouse won't convert, they can remarry a Catholic and receive the full sacrament?  It's a rare case, but it may apply to this thread.
Lay people can't apply the Pauline/Petrine privilege to their own situation.  Only a Tribunal or the Rota can issue an declaration.  And there is no traditional authority to do so.  The OP must separate from the new "wife".

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2024, 11:24:10 AM »
Quote
The matter is dealt with in the 1917 Code of Canon law in Chapter 10, Article 1. However, it seems evident that one cannot just dissolve his own marriage without a competent authority, which is currently unavailable, and would thus not apply to the present situation.
The issue is, if both he and his first wife were unbaptized, then their marriage was civil/natural only.

If he becomes baptized and joins the Church, he could marry *again* (technically it wouldn't be a second marriage, but be his first SACRAMENTAL marriage) to a practicing catholic.  This assumes the original spouse does not want to join the Faith.

A civil/natural marriage can be "upgraded" to a sacrament in this specific circuмstance, as St Paul explains.  Since the purpose of marriage is to get to heaven, a civil/natural marriage in which a spouse is hostile to the Faith can be "dissolved" (not sure if that's the correct word) so that a sacramental union can take place.

Would this need the approval of a marriage tribunal?  A catholic marriage tribunal wouldn't waste their time on non-sacramental marriages, as it's clear in Canon Law that these aren't catholic marriages.  I've heard these cases handled by Trad priests many times.  A parish priest may have the power to decide, but I'm unsure. 


Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2024, 11:44:00 AM »
The issue is, if both he and his first wife were unbaptized, then their marriage was civil/natural only.

If he becomes baptized and joins the Church, he could marry *again* (technically it wouldn't be a second marriage, but be his first SACRAMENTAL marriage) to a practicing catholic.  This assumes the original spouse does not want to join the Faith.

A civil/natural marriage can be "upgraded" to a sacrament in this specific circuмstance, as St Paul explains.  Since the purpose of marriage is to get to heaven, a civil/natural marriage in which a spouse is hostile to the Faith can be "dissolved" (not sure if that's the correct word) so that a sacramental union can take place.

Would this need the approval of a marriage tribunal?  A catholic marriage tribunal wouldn't waste their time on non-sacramental marriages, as it's clear in Canon Law that these aren't catholic marriages.  I've heard these cases handled by Trad priests many times.  A parish priest may have the power to decide, but I'm unsure.
If I remember correctly, it can be handled at the diocesan level, however, again, one cannot just decide this for himself, UNLESS we can find that it is explicitly allowed to do so. So, a Canon Law commentary on these canons should clearly state that a layman can, when lacking a priest or bishop with ordinary jurisdiction or a marriage tribunal, presume his non-sacramental marriage dissolved.

I'd be extremely surprised if that was the case. Why? Because the marriage has to be dissolved, that's an act that has to take place, so, it's not that the marriage automatically dissolves once someone converts and would like the issue to go away, but it has to be dissolved by a competent authority, which is not present.

In any case, StrivingCatholic should first come to terms with the Great Apostasy, the question of the Pope, the New Mass, etc. otherwise we're putting the cart before the horse.


 

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2024, 11:54:52 AM »

Quote
If I remember correctly, it can be handled at the diocesan level, however, again, one cannot just decide this for himself, UNLESS we can find that it is explicitly allowed to do so. So, a Canon Law commentary on these canons should clearly state that a layman can, when lacking a priest or bishop with ordinary jurisdiction or a marriage tribunal, presume his non-sacramental marriage dissolved.

I'd be extremely surprised if that was the case. Why? Because the marriage has to be dissolved, that's an act that has to take place, so, it's not that the marriage automatically dissolves once someone converts and would like the issue to go away, but it has to be dissolved by a competent authority, which is not present.
Yes, i'm not suggesting a layman can make any decisions related to canon law.  I'm suggesting (and i've known examples) where Trad priests investigated the matter and the person converted to the Faith and was "re-married" to a Trad.  But the priest made the call.

Offline St Giles

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Re: Newly Baptised and Struggling
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2024, 12:01:28 PM »
ugh...this is so...disappointing... first I was slammed by things that contradicts with what I have learnt and thought I knew...then to find out the Church is so divided and I cannot trust anything... and now this part about my past marriage...:'(
Don't lose hope. It's only another trial. All is worth it for an eternity with the infinite God. I have to say, I'm baffled by this recent development. Something just doesn't seem right. Surely there's some resolution in this current crisis in the church. Perhaps some sort of supplied jurisdiction for the case of this marriage to be judged if the authority of the apostates in Rome can't be trusted. 

Read up on Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, his letters, speeches, sermons, and also Bishop Antonio de Castro Meyer. It's incredible they persevered against the Pope and their colleagues, but they knew they were thoroughly backed by the truth of Tradition. 

God has brought you this far, even to this forum, don't stop now.

"But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?"