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Author Topic: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.  (Read 2517 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2023, 07:53:08 AM »
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  • Hahn teaches the the Church does not require Christians "to believe either that creation came to be in six literal days or it did not."
    See page 3 of https://static1.squarespace.com/static/569543b4bfe87360795306d6/t/59d68468d2b857e66503b588/1507230830363/CreationCBD.pdf
    from ScottHahn.com

    Well, while I think Hahn has a lot of problems, he's not incorrect about his statement.  Pontifical Biblical Commission under St. Pius X declared that it's permissible to hold that the term "day" in the Days of Creation may not refer to a 24-hour Day, since the sun and moon weren't created until the 4th day.  But you'll notice that this inteprretation is permitted precisely due to the premise that we hold it to be fact that the Sun/Moon were not created until later.  This is the extent to which the Creation account in Genesis can be considered non-literal.

    Offline angelusmaria

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    Re: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.
    « Reply #16 on: January 24, 2023, 06:55:16 PM »
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  • Well, while I think Hahn has a lot of problems, he's not incorrect about his statement.  Pontifical Biblical Commission under St. Pius X declared that it's permissible to hold that the term "day" in the Days of Creation may not refer to a 24-hour Day, since the sun and moon weren't created until the 4th day.  But you'll notice that this inteprretation is permitted precisely due to the premise that we hold it to be fact that the Sun/Moon were not created until later.  This is the extent to which the Creation account in Genesis can be considered non-literal.
    Just asking, but is also possible that the use of "day" in this context could mean an indeterminate period of time, similar to when we say, "back in the day" without at all meaning one specific day, but a season in life?
    please pray for me


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.
    « Reply #17 on: January 24, 2023, 07:54:57 PM »
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  • Just asking, but is also possible that the use of "day" in this context could mean an indeterminate period of time, similar to when we say, "back in the day" without at all meaning one specific day, but a season in life?
    No. It is a literal 24 hr. day.

    We read

    Quote
    [3] And God said: Be light made. And light was made. [4] And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness. [5] And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.

    Quote
    [16] And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night: and the stars. [17] And he set them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth. [18] And to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good. [19] And the evening and morning were the fourth day. 
    We do not have days which last longer the 24 hours in the sense that it is written in Genesis 1.

    Seven days in a week, 6 days on which to work, the 7th on which God rested as a model for us. 

    It is quite plain to anyone who isn't deluded to see that a day is a period of 24 hours.


    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.
    « Reply #18 on: January 24, 2023, 08:47:31 PM »
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  • Just asking, but is also possible that the use of "day" in this context could mean an indeterminate period of time, similar to when we say, "back in the day" without at all meaning one specific day, but a season in life?
    As in 1 day is as 1000 years, and 1000 years is as 1 day?
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.
    « Reply #19 on: January 24, 2023, 09:02:50 PM »
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  • As in 1 day is as 1000 years, and 1000 years is as 1 day?
    Different context.
    see 
    https://creation.com/2-peter-38-one-day-is-like-a-thousand-years





    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.
    « Reply #20 on: January 24, 2023, 10:28:20 PM »
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  • No. It is a literal 24 hr. day.

    That's the most probable opinion, but the Pontifical Biblical Commission under St. Pius X permitted entertaining a metaphorical interpretation of a day which was not 24 hours.

    People have to understand that this is not a license to treat the Book of Genesis as anything other than a historical text, but it's simply a metaphorical use of a single word, the term "day", in an extremely limited way.

    Since the Pontifical Biblical Commission under St. Pius X permitted this, Hahn is not wrong that Catholics are permitted to hold that the days of Genesis were not 24-hour days.

    This is coming from someone (myself) who holds that Father Robinson's interpretations of Scripture are heretical, that it's heretical to claim that people have been on earth for longer than about 6,000 +/- years, and a very serious error (proximate to heresy) to reject the existence of a solid / physical firmament that keeps literal physical waters off the earth from above the firmament.  So I'm not a laxist regarding the loose interpretation of Sacred Scripture, but the use of a word like day in a metaphorical sense I don't consider to be in the same category, and neither did the Pontifical Biblical Commission.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.
    « Reply #21 on: January 25, 2023, 05:18:43 AM »
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  • St Giles, are you aware of the scholarship of the Kolbe Foundation.

    You might find this helpful.
    There’s oodles there where this comes from. Your question is such an important one for bringing souls back into the true faith.

    https://www.kolbecenter.org/is-a-day-in-genesis-a-thousand-years/


    How realistic is a thousand year Sabbath?:laugh1:




    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.
    « Reply #22 on: January 25, 2023, 08:45:49 PM »
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  • How realistic is a thousand year Sabbath?:laugh1:
    Very if it is another metaphor for eternity in heaven.


    Thanks for that link.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Father Alphonsus Marie, C.SS.R.
    « Reply #23 on: January 26, 2023, 04:49:47 AM »
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  • Very if it is another metaphor for eternity in heaven.


    Thanks for that link.
    Yes, that was an afterthought I had, but let’s hope for more than  1000 years of heavenly bliss.

    my pleasure!
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024