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Author Topic: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG  (Read 1298 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
« on: April 09, 2022, 07:09:47 AM »
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  • Very few do the fully traditional pre-Pian Holy Week rites as well as at St. Gertrude the Great Church in Ohio, and they are all streamed live for viewing at SGG.org.

    Although Fr. Cekada and Mr. Van de Ryt (former MC) are deceased (RIP), their proficiency in the performance of these venerable rites has not diminished.

    According to their online April 3 bulletin, the schedule is as follows:

    All times are EST

    Palm Sunday:
    7:15 AM - Low Mass; Blessing of palms and distribution
    8:50 AM - High Mass; Blessing of palms and procession (This is the one to watch to see the differences between the traditional and Pian rites)
    NB: The procession commences about 9:30 AM. 
    11:30 AM - Low Mass
    4:45 PM - Vespers and Benediction
    5:45 PM - Low Mass

    Spy Wednesday:
    6:30 PM - The Office of Tenebrae

    Maundy Thursday:
    9:00 AM - Pontifical High Mass, Blessing of Holy Oils (rarely broadcast or recorded anywhere else), Procession to the Altar of Repose, Vespers, Stripping of the Altar.
    [Adoration continues at the Sepulchre until 11AM Good Friday]
    1:00 PM - The Maundy (Washing of the Feet)
    6:30 PM - The Office of Tenebrae

    Good Friday:
    11:25 AM - Stations of the Cross
    [12:00 PM - Tre Ore begins]
    12:15 PM - Mass of the Presanctified; Adoration of the Cross
    2:15 PM - Tre Ore Devotions and Sermon
    3:00 PM - Blessing with Relic of the True Cross; Vespers
    6:30 PM - The Office of Tenebrae
    [I omitted some extra non-liturgical items on the schedule, such as confessions, Novena, church decorating - SJ]

    Holy Saturday:
    8:00 AM - Easter Vigil (Blessing of the Fire; Prophecies; Blessing of the Font; First Mass of Easter; Vespers; Blessing of Easter Food)




    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #1 on: April 09, 2022, 07:49:18 AM »
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  • If I were a priest, I would offer the Pre-1955 Rites ... but at the proper TIMES.  They did move the Good Friday Liturgy to about noon, but to have the Easter Vigil on Saturday morning and to not do the Holy Thursday Mass in the evening (not talking about the blessing of oils, etc.) ... that's just plain wrong.  It's very clear that the Easter Vigil took place over night ... as evidenced by the symbolism of light and darnkess, and ended in the early morning hours transitioning into Easter Mass.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #2 on: April 09, 2022, 08:29:03 AM »
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  • If I were a priest, I would offer the Pre-1955 Rites ... but at the proper TIMES.  They did move the Good Friday Liturgy to about noon, but to have the Easter Vigil on Saturday morning and to not do the Holy Thursday Mass in the evening (not talking about the blessing of oils, etc.) ... that's just plain wrong.  It's very clear that the Easter Vigil took place over night ... as evidenced by the symbolism of light and darnkess, and ended in the early morning hours transitioning into Easter Mass.

    “Final Thoughts: For more than a thousand years, the ceremonies of Holy Saturday took place earlier in the day. The Extraordinary Form celebrates all vigils in the morning: the Vigil of Christmas, the Vigil of the Ascension, the Vigil of Pentecost, and so on. There’s nothing to be embarrassed about here. It is true the Exsultet makes reference to “this holy night”—but if we start down that road of “literalism” where will it end? Should we eliminate candles because we have electric lights? Surely not…”

    https://www.ccwatershed.org/2021/02/28/screenshots-proof-holy-saturday-took-place-in-the-morning/
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #3 on: April 09, 2022, 08:36:01 AM »
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  • Night might be more symbolic/metaphorical given it certainly was like night while Our Lord was in the tomb.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #4 on: April 09, 2022, 09:00:36 AM »
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  • Night might be more symbolic/metaphorical given it certainly was like night while Our Lord was in the tomb.

    Cardinal Wiseman agrees with you, as quoted by Dr. Carol Byrne in this excerpt:

    “A benighted reform

    The most popular argument put forward by the reformers in favor of changing the Easter Vigil was the alleged illogical character of lighting the Easter fire and candle in daylight hours. How absurd, they scoffed, to be singing about the darkness of “this night” in broad daylight – as if the Church had committed a liturgical gaffe that had gone unnoticed for 13 centuries.

    And so the reformers sneered and sniggered at the age-old Easter Vigil, led on by the instigator of the Liturgical Movement, Dom Beauduin, who stated scathingly in 1951:

    “How is it that we have endured and accepted uncritically for centuries the practice of singing the Exsultet and the Vere beata Nox (“O truly blessed night”) in broad daylight? And how many other equally serious anomalies we now accept without batting an eyelid! Surely this must lead us to conclude that our liturgical consciousness is not sufficiently enlightened?” (4) (See here)

    It was an astoundingly arrogant view that assumed that all his predecessors in the priesthood were either oppressed by tyrannical Church leaders or were too dim-witted to think for themselves and, furthermore, that there was only one way to think – his way. It was also a view that came to dominate and distort the thinking of theologians and liturgists up to our times. (5)

    But it was Beauduin and his fellow-reformers, not the followers of Tradition, who were the benighted ones. The central fallacy in Beauduin’s argument, which was enshrined in Maxima Redemptionis, was that midnight, or at least sundown, was the “proper” time to hold the Easter Vigil. (6)

    Cardinal WisemanCardinal Wiseman justified the traditional Easter vigil ceremonies
    Having claimed to be following the superior path of enlightenment over the Church’s lex orandi, Beauduin failed to see what was glaringly obvious to well instructed Catholics: that the references to the “night” in the traditional Easter Vigil had a mystical rather than a naturalistic significance.

    Let us listen to the following explanation of this point given by a Prelate who had never been indoctrinated in the Liturgical Movement’s ideology. With reference to the Easter Vigil, Cardinal Nicholas Wiseman (1802-1865), the first Archbishop of Westminster, stated: “The service speaks of the ‘night;’ it is the night in which Israel escaped from Egypt, and which preceded the resurrection of Christ.” (7) 

    In other words, “night” was used in the Vigil texts in a pre-figurative sense, (8) as a metaphor for the darkness of the world in the bondage of sin before the Redemption. It has no intrinsic connection with the time when the sun sinks below the horizon.”

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f092_Dialogue_16.htm
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #5 on: April 09, 2022, 09:13:34 AM »
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  • “Final Thoughts: For more than a thousand years, the ceremonies of Holy Saturday took place earlier in the day. The Extraordinary Form celebrates all vigils in the morning: the Vigil of Christmas, the Vigil of the Ascension, the Vigil of Pentecost, and so on. There’s nothing to be embarrassed about here. It is true the Exsultet makes reference to “this holy night”—but if we start down that road of “literalism” where will it end? Should we eliminate candles because we have electric lights? Surely not…”

    https://www.ccwatershed.org/2021/02/28/screenshots-proof-holy-saturday-took-place-in-the-morning/

    Sorry but that's extremely weak.  VIGILS clearly had their origins in all-night overnight anticipations of the feast of the following day.  In fact the term Vigil in Latin means "night watch".

    Just because they were Modernists doesn't mean they got everything wrong.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #6 on: April 09, 2022, 09:23:19 AM »
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  • Sorry but that's extremely weak.  VIGILS clearly had their origins in all-night overnight anticipations of the feast of the following day.  In fact the term Vigil in Latin means "night watch".

    Just because they were Modernists doesn't mean they got everything wrong.

    Sometimes it’s just better to admit you were wrong, than to demonstrate arrogant ignorance (but I know from long experience that you are incapable of that).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #7 on: April 09, 2022, 08:35:29 PM »
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  • Very few do the fully traditional pre-Pian Holy Week rites as well as at St. Gertrude the Great Church in Ohio, and they are all streamed live for viewing at SGG.org.

    Yes, sgg.org/cult puts on a nice show.  However, would you assist thereat in person?  Are they not, in your esteemed opinion, arrogant, scuм-sucking schismatics whose actions are gravely, dare I say scandalously, illicit?  If so, why promote them at all?

    By all means, enjoy The Show.  Then, go read the endlessly-edifying Bishop's Corner, wherein you are sure to find installment 1000 (give or take) about his cats named after Italian composers and artists.  Nothing to see here...keep moving....
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline jersey60

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #8 on: April 09, 2022, 09:09:42 PM »
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  • Very few do the fully traditional pre-Pian Holy Week rites as well as at St. Gertrude the Great Church in Ohio, and they are all streamed live for viewing at SGG.org.

    Although Fr. Cekada and Mr. Van de Ryt (former MC) are deceased (RIP), their proficiency in the performance of these venerable rites has not diminished.

    According to their online April 3 bulletin, the schedule is as follows:

    All times are EST

    Palm Sunday:
    7:15 AM - Low Mass; Blessing of palms and distribution
    8:50 AM - High Mass; Blessing of palms and procession (This is the one to watch to see the differences between the traditional and Pian rites)
    NB: The procession commences about 9:30 AM. 
    11:30 AM - Low Mass
    4:45 PM - Vespers and Benediction
    5:45 PM - Low Mass

    Spy Wednesday:
    6:30 PM - The Office of Tenebrae

    Maundy Thursday:
    9:00 AM - Pontifical High Mass, Blessing of Holy Oils (rarely broadcast or recorded anywhere else), Procession to the Altar of Repose, Vespers, Stripping of the Altar.
    [Adoration continues at the Sepulchre until 11AM Good Friday]
    1:00 PM - The Maundy (Washing of the Feet)
    6:30 PM - The Office of Tenebrae

    Good Friday:
    11:25 AM - Stations of the Cross
    [12:00 PM - Tre Ore begins]
    12:15 PM - Mass of the Presanctified; Adoration of the Cross
    2:15 PM - Tre Ore Devotions and Sermon
    3:00 PM - Blessing with Relic of the True Cross; Vespers
    6:30 PM - The Office of Tenebrae
    [I omitted some extra non-liturgical items on the schedule, such as confessions, Novena, church decorating - SJ]

    Holy Saturday:
    8:00 AM - Easter Vigil (Blessing of the Fire; Prophecies; Blessing of the Font; First Mass of Easter; Vespers; Blessing of Easter Food)
    The Mass site I attend will adhere to pre-1955 rites but the exception is on Holy Thursday as our ceremonies begin in the evening, I’d have to think that is due to work schedules so as to allow more faithful to attend but I’m no expert on this issue

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #9 on: April 15, 2022, 05:53:35 AM »
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  • Bump.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #10 on: April 20, 2022, 06:03:45 AM »
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  • Yes, sgg.org/cult puts on a nice show.  However, would you assist thereat in person?  Are they not, in your esteemed opinion, arrogant, scuм-sucking schismatics whose actions are gravely, dare I say scandalously, illicit?  If so, why promote them at all?

    By all means, enjoy The Show.  Then, go read the endlessly-edifying Bishop's Corner, wherein you are sure to find installment 1000 (give or take) about his cats named after Italian composers and artists.  Nothing to see here...keep moving....

    And their most grievous sin was 45 years ago, when they refused to embrace a jew-pope’s 1962 missal.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: Live (Pre-1955) Holy Week Webcasts from SGG
    « Reply #11 on: April 20, 2022, 01:36:33 PM »
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  • There were certain times kept to for centuries, and if the pre 1955 is to be used, it should be done at those times. I think some have revived the pre 55, but moved the times to what seems to match the liturgy. There is a decent case for doing that, but the experience of the past decades should show changing this and this to what seems better or more rational or more apparently traditional is a fatal danger. I think the ICKSP in Limerick followed the proper times, but had only one priest on duty as a result of COVID nonsense, when they revived it. Nothing sung, so easy to follow. Fr Cedaka RIP upheld the dogmatic non una cuм error, but the schedule indicates a very decent effort.