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Author Topic: Marriage vows and domestic abuse  (Read 9009 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2022, 04:17:03 PM »
Quote from: epiphany on July 17, 2022, 03:50:10 PM
1917
Canon 1083
§ 1. Error concerning the person renders marriage invalid.
§ 2. Error about a quality of the person, even if it gave rise to the contract, renders marriage invalid only:
1.° If the error about quality amounts to an error of the person;
2.° If a free person contracts marriage with a person thought to be free, but he was really a slave in servitude strictly speaking.

The "person" includes everything about the person.

I did not list all the exceptions from the 1917 code, only the one I thought applied to deceit.

As I have said several times: i am no theologian.  talk to a traditional priest you trust.

No, the "person" does NOT include EVERYTHING about the person.

There's two major categories.  1) Error regarding the person vs. 2) error regarding the QUALITY of a person.  Error regarding the person means about the person's essential identity ... who they are, etc.  So, for instance, if you married a woman, but the woman had an identical twin who swapped out for the other when wedding vows were exchanged.  Or some other thing that's core to the basic identity of the person you married.

"Abusive anger" refers to the QUALITY of a person.  This QUALITY has to be so essential that this would effectively translate into an essential error about the person.  So various considerations like ... this person had an undisclosed addition to pornography or impurity, or various vices or character flaws, those were never considered to suffice to annul a marriage.  I tried to argue that a man's being a sodomite would qualify, but even that didn't suffice in and of itself to pre-V2 marriage tribunals (there had to be other conditions).

But having had an "abusive" temper (which is somewhat subjective to begin with) does not rise to the level of an essential characteristic of a person that would render a marriage null.

This kind of stuff is bleeding into the Novus Ordo view of annulment ... which expanded the causes for "nullity" to about a dozen or more, and with enough categories so that pretty much anything would justify a declaration of nullity (including various psychological underdevelopment or incompatibility).
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Offline epiphany

Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2022, 05:17:15 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 17, 2022, 04:17:03 PM
No, the "person" does NOT include EVERYTHING about the person.

There's two major categories.  1) Error regarding the person vs. 2) error regarding the QUALITY of a person.  Error regarding the person means about the person's essential identity ... who they are, etc.  So, for instance, if you married a woman, but the woman had an identical twin who swapped out for the other when wedding vows were exchanged.  Or some other thing that's core to the basic identity of the person you married.

"Abusive anger" refers to the QUALITY of a person.  This QUALITY has to be so essential that this would effectively translate into an essential error about the person.  So various considerations like ... this person had an undisclosed addition to pornography or impurity, or various vices or character flaws, those were never considered to suffice to annul a marriage.  I tried to argue that a man's being a sodomite would qualify, but even that didn't suffice in and of itself to pre-V2 marriage tribunals (there had to be other conditions).

But having had an "abusive" temper (which is somewhat subjective to begin with) does not rise to the level of an essential characteristic of a person that would render a marriage null.

This kind of stuff is bleeding into the Novus Ordo view of annulment ... which expanded the causes for "nullity" to about a dozen or more, and with enough categories so that pretty much anything would justify a declaration of nullity (including various psychological underdevelopment or incompatibility).
As I have said several times: i am no theologian.  talk to a traditional priest you trust.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2022, 05:17:21 PM »
Quote
The "person" includes everything about the person.
No.  It’s impossible to know everything about a person (most people don’t even know themselves well).  Plus, people can be tempted to, and sin in, things after marriage that weren’t a problem before marriage.  Some temptations don’t happen til later in life, as many times maturity brings success and success (or then, fear of failure) tempts one in a way that your youth never could  (ie successful businessman is tempted to a bad business deal….or a happy spouse is tempted to adultery because of boredom).


No one can predict the future and it’s impossible to disclose all attributes of our ourselves, pre-marriage. 
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Offline epiphany

Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2022, 05:31:57 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 17, 2022, 05:17:21 PM
No.  It’s impossible to know everything about a person (most people don’t even know themselves well).  Plus, people can be tempted to, and sin in, things after marriage that weren’t a problem before marriage.  Some temptations don’t happen til later in life, as many times maturity brings success and success (or then, fear of failure) tempts one in a way that your youth never could  (ie successful businessman is tempted to a bad business deal….or a happy spouse is tempted to adultery because of boredom).


No one can predict the future and it’s impossible to disclose all attributes of our ourselves, pre-marriage.
True, but in my opinion, and I am no theologian, that deceit regarding a serious character defect which will hamper the marriage, are two errors about the quality of the person which amounts to errors of the person.
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Offline josefamenendez

Re: Marriage vows and domestic abuse
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2022, 05:41:53 PM »
I always thought that the key to annulment was the capacity of the person(s) getting married at the moment of the ceremony. Are they in full capacity to make the contract licit at that moment, or did they have diminished or limited capacity ( possibly due to the other partner as well) at the time of the ceremony that would nullify the contract? A lot of what's being said here are unfortunate and even dangerous character flaws of a person/persons within a marriage, that may support separation, but does not constitute nullity.
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