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Offline Belloc

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« on: April 15, 2010, 12:09:35 PM »
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  • I have a freind that wants to know why these are wrong...any articles I can refer her to? They have to be somewaht positive, if she sees hardcore attacks, she will shut down....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 01:49:19 PM »
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  • I think Angelqueen forums had some good stuff about 5 or 6 years ago.



    Offline Vladimir

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    « Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 05:13:40 PM »
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  • There's nothing "wrong" with them. You can just inform your friend that the Rosary was given to us from Heaven! There's no need at all to make substantial changes to it (the Fatima prayer for example, even the Gloria Patri was added by St. Louis de Montfort) especially as regards to the Mysteries.



    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 09:01:47 PM »
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  • I cannot even recall all of the events included in the LM, but my first impression years ago, besides the fact that Our Lady revealed the Rosary to St. Dominic, was: Our Lady was not even present at the events under consideration (the Transfiguration, for example).
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline Alex

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    « Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 09:54:56 PM »
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  • The Rosary has always been called "Our Lady's Psalter". I believe that even Mary refered to the Rosary as her Psalter. It is called her Psalter because the 150 angelic saluations to Mary represent the 150 Psalms in the book of Psalms of David. If we change the Rosary to 20 Mysteries, the Rosary can no longer be called our Lady's Psalter and the connection between it and David's Psalms is lost.

    Also, the 15 Mysteries Rosary is divided into 3 parts of 5 decades each. The reason for this is:

    1.  To honor the three Persons of the Most Blessed Trinity;

    2.  To honor the life, death and glory of Jesus Christ;

    3.  To imitate the Church Triumphant, to help the members of the Church Militant and to lessen the pains of the Church Suffering;
     
    4.  to imitate the three groups into which the Psalms are divided:
    (a) the first being for the purgative life,
    (b) the second for the illuminative life,
    (c) and the third for the unitive life;
     
    5. And finally, to give us graces in abundance during our lifetime, peace at death, and glory in eternity.

    But 20 Mysteries cannot be divided into 3 parts. Once again, the deeper meaning and intention of the Rosary is lost.


    Offline Vladimir

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    « Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 11:44:53 PM »
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  • Well, the Blessed Virgin was not present at the Agony in the Garden either, although I think (not sure) that Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich says that the Blessed Mother shared in the pains of Christ during that time in spirit, even though she was not there in person.



    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 12:20:33 PM »
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  • In the Gospel, there were 153 fish in the nets pulled up by the Apostles after they had fished all night, catching nothing.  When you include the three Hail Marys said before the 15 decades, the total is...153.  While fascination with numbers can certainly cross over into the superstitious, they are not without meaning -- especially when mentioned under such circumstances within Holy Writ.

    In an age when very few pray five, much less fifteen, decades on a daily basis, does it even make practical sense to ADD five more decades?  Forgetting the hubris involved in adding to that which was given by our Lady herself, does it make ANY sense to make this devotion "bigger" or "longer", and in an age that is decidedly addicted to external activity?  In a word, NO.
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline Cristian

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    « Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 03:09:58 PM »
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  • I was told that the intention of JPII was ecumenical, and that´s the reason SSPX doesn´t pray the LM.

    Cristian


    Offline Cristian

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    « Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 03:19:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    In the Gospel, there were 153 fish in the nets pulled up by the Apostles after they had fished all night, catching nothing.  When you include the three Hail Marys said before the 15 decades, the total is...153.  While fascination with numbers can certainly cross over into the superstitious, they are not without meaning -- especially when mentioned under such circumstances within Holy Writ.

    In an age when very few pray five, much less fifteen, decades on a daily basis, does it even make practical sense to ADD five more decades?  Forgetting the hubris involved in adding to that which was given by our Lady herself, does it make ANY sense to make this devotion "bigger" or "longer", and in an age that is decidedly addicted to external activity?  In a word, NO.


    Saint Cyrille of Jerusalem said Our Lord told the Apostles to count them because Jews knew (or at least believed so) there were 153 species of fishes, and so with this miracle He was saying to them in a quite symbolic manner that they "fishers of men" had to preach and try every kind of man to enter into the nets of the Church. I think this is quite beautifull.

    Cristian

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #9 on: April 20, 2010, 04:36:04 PM »
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  • That is beautiful, Cristian.  Thank you :)

    Btw, why would the SSPX even begin to presume JP2's intentions (which he never clearly expressed, as far as I know)?
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #10 on: May 30, 2010, 02:36:24 PM »
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  • It seems to me to be a bit arrogant to change a form of prayer that is so old and may have been revealed by Our Lady.  I am what most people here would call a semi-trad or a conservative No type, but I don't use them.  If I did I would say that I was pray8ing the chaplet of Pope John Paul II, not the holy rosary.  I suppose there is noting wrong with that, as far as it goes.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #11 on: May 30, 2010, 02:56:11 PM »
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  • I read many times  the Luminous Mysteries might be associated with the illuminati.

    You can plug into google both words "Luminous and Illuminati" and find several sites talking about it.  

    Is it true; I don't know, but in private I only pray the sorrowful mysteries, in public I pray whatever the leader calls for, but since I am Traditional, people I pray with are like mind and we don't pray any Luminous Mysteries.  

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #12 on: May 30, 2010, 02:58:56 PM »
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  • There are many ways to pray on Rosary beads, but none is as venerable or as ancient as The Rosary, i.e. the system of prayer given to St. Dominic with the 15 mysteries.

    Any other set of prayers for the Rosary beads is 2nd class at best.

    The Rosary (classic version) is in a class by itself, and should not be tampered with.

    It's like re-writing Scripture, instead of simply writing a new book of meditations to rest on its own merit.

    Matthew
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    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #13 on: May 30, 2010, 03:09:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM


    Is it true; I don't know, but in private I only pray the sorrowful mysteries, in public I pray whatever the leader calls for, but since I am Traditional, people I pray with are like mind and we don't pray any Luminous Mysteries.  
    Hi Myrna,  Many times I have only wanted the Sorrowful Mysteries, and wondered if I was "cheating".  So it's OK to focus on one Mystery?

    I cannot imagine praying the Luminous, ever.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #14 on: May 30, 2010, 03:17:51 PM »
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  • Actually Elizabeth, what really got me started on the sorrowful mysteries, I read in one of those Catholic prophesy books, might have been Yves Dupont, that in the end times God will grant favors of those praying the sorrowful mysteries, not to say the others are wrong, but the way I  understood this, God favored the sorrowful ones in the end times.  

    Of course He only grants things to anyone that are His Will also, no matter what they pray.  

    This made sense to me, because if we are, and I believe we are living in end times, and Jesus suffered for our salvation, and since we are getting closer, we should think about that more often, His passion.  

    Also during Mass the rosary prayed  with the sorrowful mysteries is another way to pray the Mass.  This I learned in Catholic school eons ago.

     

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