Author Topic: Let the innocent cast.... (Read 1945 times)

spouse of Jesus · « **on:** August 21, 2009, 08:49:34 AM »

"if you are a sinner yourself, you cannot speak against sin and condemn it"
But, I have a problem with this. I think there is a principal called 'objectivism' meaning that when sth is correct, it is correct. No matter how we think and act. And when sth is wrong, it is wrong. No matter how much sinful and dirty we might be.
Therefore, if I am a theif, I can say "theft is wrong" and you must agree with me, since I have declared an objective truth. You should not think about my being good or bad, just the truth of this statement.
It is why I think that the first sentence is against objectism.
the other problem: If I am guilty of X and an ignorant comes to me and asks whether X is good or bad, shouldn't I tell him that X is bad?
If I am a sinner and some body wants to imitate my sins, shouldn't I tell him not to do so?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2009, 11:07:59 AM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

"if you are a sinner yourself, you cannot speak against sin and condemn it"
But, I have a problem with this. I think there is a principal called 'objectivism' meaning that when sth is correct, it is correct. No matter how we think and act. And when sth is wrong, it is wrong. No matter how much sinful and dirty we might be.
Therefore, if I am a theif, I can say "theft is wrong" and you must agree with me, since I have declared an objective truth. You should not think about my being good or bad, just the truth of this statement.
It is why I think that the first sentence is against objectism.
the other problem: If I am guilty of X and an ignorant comes to me and asks whether X is good or bad, shouldn't I tell him that X is bad?
If I am a sinner and some body wants to imitate my sins, shouldn't I tell him not to do so?

Of course. The idea that someone cannot say something is wrong if they have done it is a deliberate distortion of "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

A judge places a sentence on those who are guilty - if we curse sinners when we are guilty of the same sins, we call down the same penalty on ourselves.

Reproving sinners, however, is a work of mercy. Not an act of judgement.

Jamie · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:30:04 AM »

Thanks for raising this issue - it is something which always worries me when I try to point out the teachings of the Church to someone who is obviously flouting them. I am a terrible sinner and always feel that I am in no position to correct others.

CM · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:41:29 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Of course. The idea that someone cannot say something is wrong if they have done it is a deliberate distortion of "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

A judge places a sentence on those who are guilty - if we curse sinners when we are guilty of the same sins, we call down the same penalty on ourselves.

Reproving sinners, however, is a work of mercy. Not an act of judgement.

Hear! Hear!