It seems to me that the hysterical remarks on this thread excoriating Maria Valtorta are almost certainly nothing more than a hatchet job aimed at Bishop Williamson. These people are accusing H.E. of promoting "disgusting heretical filth," and not being terribly subtle about it. I guess they know better than to try playing the "h0Ɩ0cαųst denier" card on this forum, so they've gleefully adopted this tactic instead.

It seems to me that the hysterical remarks on this thread excoriating Maria Valtorta are almost certainly nothing more than a hatchet job aimed at Bishop Williamson. These people are accusing H.E. of promoting "disgusting heretical filth," and not being terribly subtle about it. I guess they know better than to try playing the "h0Ɩ0cαųst denier" card on this forum, so they've gleefully adopted this tactic instead.

"Hysterical remarks" like... oh... say, terming your opponents "illuminati," or now (tacitly) crypto-Jews working their way around making accusations of "h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?"

Enough with this hyperbole, please. The objectionable passages of the work are known and have been cited. If we are wrong about them, then correct us. If you're so invested in defending this prohibited book, then stop wasting everyone's time with effeminate displays of emotion and catty ad hominems and start actually defending it.

 Nothing can replace the sacrifice of the Cross. No devotion, not even to the Blessed Virgin, can replace the holy sacrifice of the Mass. Indeed, the Blessed Virgin encourages us to come to the cross; she is always present there.  -- Archbishop Lefebvre

 

Nobody is targeting anyone.  

MMD:

Quote

It seems to me that the hysterical remarks on this thread excoriating Maria Valtorta are almost certainly nothing more than a hatchet job aimed at Bishop Williamson. These people are accusing H.E. of promoting "disgusting heretical filth," and not being terribly subtle about it. I guess they know better than to try playing the "h0Ɩ0cαųst denier" card on this forum, so they've gleefully adopted this tactic instead.

Well, exactly!  I could care less what ladislaus and the other thumbsuckers say about me.  Their ultimate target is the bishop.  It is a "hatchet job aimed at Bishop Williamson."  You're right, MMD.  The Cathinfo Illuminati accuse the bishop of promoting "disgusting heretical filth."   :shocked:
 
As for the "h0Ɩ0cαųst denier:"  Are you saying that these gentle souls would accuse H.E. online of being a h0Ɩ0cαųst denier, but that they dare not? Are you implying that they may be numbered among the Chosen, or, in any case, are very sympathetic to them?  Gosh, I wish they would play that card.  Then we could really have some fun.   :jumping2:

Hollingsworth - you're the fellow who passionately defended Michael Hoffman when his heresies and blasphemies were brought to light, aren't you?

Anyway, my post history with regard to Bishop Williamson and the Jews is an open matter of record around here. I happily invite you to peruse it and look for evidence that I am a member fo the Tribe, or in any way "sympathetic" to them. Perhaps you could compare notes with TheKnightVigilant, who considers me to be a rabidly anti-semitic "Islamophile" (and here I suppose would be the place for an emoticon of some kind, that is if I did not personally consider them asinine, infantile and effeminate).

While we're at it, I also invite you to address the objectionable passages from the "Poem of the Man God" and explain to us why we should not find them objectionable.

Medjagorje, Divine Mercy, maria Voltaire ?????

All banned.  


Leviticus 20:6

“If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 19:31

“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.

Deuteronomy 18:10-13

There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God,

1 John 4:1-3

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

Quote

I have in my possession a statement of Archbishop Lefebvre advising against their reading (it is still in my packed trunks!)

Oh really?  That "statement" must still be in Fr. Laisney's trunks.  I've never seen it.  Have any of you?

tmw89:

--- Quote from: Bishop Williamson, "Eleison Comments" Issue CCLXXV - 275 (English) - 20 October 2012 ---HOME READING
When a while back these “Comments” advised readers to fortify their homes in case public bastions of the Faith might, due to the wickedness of the times, prove to be a thing of the past, a few readers wrote in to ask just how homes might be fortified. In fact various spiritual and material means of defending home and family have been suggested in previous numbers of the “Comments”, notably of course the Holy Rosary, but one fortification has gone unmentioned which I think I would try in place of television if I had a family to defend: reading aloud each night to the children selected chapters from Maria Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God. And when we had reached the end of the five volumes in English, I imagine us starting again from the beginning, and so on, until all the children had left home !

Yet the Poem has many and eloquent enemies. It consists of episodes from the lives of Our Lord and Our Lady, from her immaculate conception through to her assumption into Heaven, as seen in visions received, believably from Heaven, during the Second World War in northern Italy by Maria Valtorta, an unmarried woman of mature age lying in a sick-bed, permanently crippled from an injury to her back inflicted several years earlier. Notes included in the Italian edition (running to over four thousand pages in ten volumes) show how afraid she was of being deceived by the Devil, and many people are not in fact convinced that the Poem truly came from God. Let us look at three main objections.

Firstly, the Poem was put on the Church’s Index of forbidden books in the 1950’s, which was before Rome went neo-modernist in the 1960’s. The reason given for the condemnation was the romanticizing and sentimentalizing of the Gospel events. Secondly the Poem is accused of countless doctrinal errors. Thirdly Archbishop Lefebvre objected to the Poem that its giving so many physical details of Our Lord’s daily life makes him too material, and brings us too far down from the spiritual level of the four Gospels.

But firstly, how could the modernists have taken over Rome in the 1960’s, as they did, had they not already been well established within Rome in the 1950’s ? The Poem, like the Gospels (e.g. Jn.XI, 35, etc.), is full of sentiment but always proportional to its object. The Poem is for any sane judge, in my opinion, neither sentimental nor romanticized. Secondly, the seeming doctrinal errors are not difficult to explain, one by one, as is done by a competent theologian in the notes to be found in the Italian edition of the Poem. And thirdly, with all due respect to Archbishop Lefebvre, I would argue that modern man needs the material detail for him to believe again in the reality of the Gospels. Has not too much “spirituality” kicked Our Lord upstairs, so to speak, while cinema and television have taken over modern man’s sense of reality on the ground floor ? As Our Lord was true man and true God, so the Poem is at every moment both fully spiritual and fully material.

From non-electronic reading of the Poem in the home, I can imagine many benefits, besides the real live contact between parents reading and children listening. Children soak in from their surroundings like sponges soak in water. From the reading of chapters of the Poem selected according to the children’s age, I can imagine almost no end to how much they could learn about Our Lord and Our Lady. And the questions they would ask ! And the answers that the parents would have to come up with ! I do believe the Poem could greatly fortify a home.

Kyrie eleison.
--- End quote ---

http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=202.0

Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey

From Fr. Francois Laisney, SSPX, "Question and Answers," The Angelus, January, 1991: (my bolded emphasis)

What do you think of the Poem of the Man-God by Maria Valtorta?

Answer: These books have never received an imprimatur. I have in my possession a statement of Archbishop Lefebvre advising against their reading (it is still in my packed trunks!). These books appeal too much to the sensitivity. But worse, they contain several passages impossible to be from God---passages which are tantamount to blasphemy. For instance, Maria Valtorta presents Mary as asking her mother Anne: "Tell me, Mummy, can one be a sinner out of love of God?...I mean to commit a sin in order to be loved by God, Who becomes a Savior?" How could the Immaculate Virgin even think such a thing, since she was full of that Charity which "dealeth not perversely,...thinketh no evil" (1Cor. 13:4-5). She knew too well that "the damnation of those who say, 'let us do evil, that there may come good,' is just!" (Rom. 3:8)

This is the complete statement:

Quote

I would also like to be a sinner, a big sinner, if I were not afraid of offending the Lord... Tell Me, mummy, can one be a sinner out of love of God?

Who is lost, is saved. Isn't that so? I would like to be saved by the Savior to receive His loving look. That is why I would like to sin, but not to commit a sin that would disgust Him. How can He save Me if I do not get lost?

The second half of the statement puts it in context. And of course, here Our Lady is a very small child, and is speaking innocently. She has no desire to offend God. And then her parents gently correct her. By presenting only part of the statement out of context, the entire meaning is twisted to mean its opposite.

.  

It was taken from the Angelus.  

Quote from: hollingsworth

Quote

I have in my possession a statement of Archbishop Lefebvre advising against their reading (it is still in my packed trunks!)

Oh really?  That "statement" must still be in Fr. Laisney's trunks.  I've never seen it.  Have any of you?

tmw89:

--- Quote from: Bishop Williamson, "Eleison Comments" Issue CCLXXV - 275 (English) - 20 October 2012 ---HOME READING
When a while back these “Comments” advised readers to fortify their homes in case public bastions of the Faith might, due to the wickedness of the times, prove to be a thing of the past, a few readers wrote in to ask just how homes might be fortified. In fact various spiritual and material means of defending home and family have been suggested in previous numbers of the “Comments”, notably of course the Holy Rosary, but one fortification has gone unmentioned which I think I would try in place of television if I had a family to defend: reading aloud each night to the children selected chapters from Maria Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God. And when we had reached the end of the five volumes in English, I imagine us starting again from the beginning, and so on, until all the children had left home !

Yet the Poem has many and eloquent enemies. It consists of episodes from the lives of Our Lord and Our Lady, from her immaculate conception through to her assumption into Heaven, as seen in visions received, believably from Heaven, during the Second World War in northern Italy by Maria Valtorta, an unmarried woman of mature age lying in a sick-bed, permanently crippled from an injury to her back inflicted several years earlier. Notes included in the Italian edition (running to over four thousand pages in ten volumes) show how afraid she was of being deceived by the Devil, and many people are not in fact convinced that the Poem truly came from God. Let us look at three main objections.

Firstly, the Poem was put on the Church’s Index of forbidden books in the 1950’s, which was before Rome went neo-modernist in the 1960’s. The reason given for the condemnation was the romanticizing and sentimentalizing of the Gospel events. Secondly the Poem is accused of countless doctrinal errors. Thirdly Archbishop Lefebvre objected to the Poem that its giving so many physical details of Our Lord’s daily life makes him too material, and brings us too far down from the spiritual level of the four Gospels.

But firstly, how could the modernists have taken over Rome in the 1960’s, as they did, had they not already been well established within Rome in the 1950’s ? The Poem, like the Gospels (e.g. Jn.XI, 35, etc.), is full of sentiment but always proportional to its object. The Poem is for any sane judge, in my opinion, neither sentimental nor romanticized. Secondly, the seeming doctrinal errors are not difficult to explain, one by one, as is done by a competent theologian in the notes to be found in the Italian edition of the Poem. And thirdly, with all due respect to Archbishop Lefebvre, I would argue that modern man needs the material detail for him to believe again in the reality of the Gospels. Has not too much “spirituality” kicked Our Lord upstairs, so to speak, while cinema and television have taken over modern man’s sense of reality on the ground floor ? As Our Lord was true man and true God, so the Poem is at every moment both fully spiritual and fully material.

From non-electronic reading of the Poem in the home, I can imagine many benefits, besides the real live contact between parents reading and children listening. Children soak in from their surroundings like sponges soak in water. From the reading of chapters of the Poem selected according to the children’s age, I can imagine almost no end to how much they could learn about Our Lord and Our Lady. And the questions they would ask ! And the answers that the parents would have to come up with ! I do believe the Poem could greatly fortify a home.

Kyrie eleison.
--- End quote ---

http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=202.0

More proof that Archbishop Lefebvre did not approve the poem of the mangod.