Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so  (Read 3766 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Cera

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5208
  • Reputation: +2290/-1012
  • Gender: Female
  • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
« on: March 24, 2017, 04:50:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  •  Matthew 13:55-57Douay-Rheims
    1899 American Edition
    55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:
    56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence therefore hath he all these things?
    57 And they were scandalized in his regard. But Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2525/-2210
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #1 on: March 24, 2017, 05:11:23 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Jesus did not have a biological brother. The Greek word 'Adelphos', meaning brother, is a literal translation from the Aramaic word 'Aha'. Aha is a broad term meaning brother, cousin, relative and kinsman; however, there was no specific Aramaic word for cousin at that time and afterwards. Aramaic was the language spoken in Jesus' time and the century that followed. The original Scripture was written in Aramaic and Greek, but even if the part referring to Jesus' brother(s) was written in Greek, this Greek was a direct translation from the Aramaic spoken at the time, because there was no specific Aramaic word for cousin, then the word "brother" (Aha) was used in it's place.

    The same goes for "sister" (adelphe).

    The only other plausible explanation is Joseph was a widower who had children before he took on Mary as his second wife, as stated by the Protoevangelium of James (c. A.D. 120), thereby, making James the stepbrother, not blood brother, of Jesus.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)


    Online Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5208
    • Reputation: +2290/-1012
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #2 on: March 24, 2017, 06:21:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • I am fully aware of what you are saying. However, there is another possibility -- that the words of the Bible have been changed. How could the Church have defended the perpetual virginity of Our Lady with this verse in our Catholic Bible?
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11662
    • Reputation: +6989/-498
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #3 on: March 24, 2017, 07:11:38 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Did you not check the note?

    [55] His brethren: These were the children of Mary the wife of Cleophas, sister to our Blessed Lady, (St. Matt. 27. 56; St. John 19. 25,) and therefore, according to the usual style of the Scripture, they were called brethren, that is, near relations to our Saviour.

    When the priest starts his sermon, he may address us as, My dearly beloved brethren. Are we then to assume that everybody in the church are blood brothers and sisters. 

    In many cultures, cousins are referred to as brothers and sisters. 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Online Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5208
    • Reputation: +2290/-1012
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #4 on: March 24, 2017, 08:03:25 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Of course the note is there, but that does not answer the question: how is it that an 1899 Catholic Bible used the words "sisters" in regard to Jesus?

    It is also in Mark:
    Mark 6:3
    1] And going out from thence, he went into his own country; and his disciples followed him. [2] And when the sabbath was come, he began to teach in the ѕуηαgσgυє: and many hearing him were in admiration at his doctrine, saying: How came this man by all these things? and what wisdom is this that is given to him, and such mighty works as are wrought by his hands? [3] Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? are not also his sisters here with us? And they were scandalized in regard of him. [4] And Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and in his own house, and among his own kindred.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Online Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5208
    • Reputation: +2290/-1012
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #5 on: March 24, 2017, 08:09:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Outside of the beheading of St. John the Baptist do you remember all these beheadings in the Douay-Rheims? The Moslems are having a heyday with this, they are quoting these Bible verses to argue that the Bible is as violent as their evil book.

    1 Kings (1 Samuel) 31:9
    And they cut off Saul' s head, and stripped him of his armour, and sent into the land of the Philistines round about, to publish it in the temples of their idols, and among their people.
    27   

    2 Kings (2 Samuel) 16:9
    And Abisai the son of Sarvia said to the king: Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? I will go, and cut off his head.
    28   

    2 Kings (2 Samuel) 20:22
    So she went to all the people, and spoke to them wisely: and they cut off the head of Seba the son of Bochri, and cast it out to Joab. And he sounded the trumpet, and they departed from the city, every one to their home: and Joab returned to Jerusalem to the king.

    4 Kings (2 Kings) 6:32
    But Eliseus sat in his house, and the ancients sat with him. So he sent a man before: and before that messenger came, he said to the ancients: Do you know that this son of a murderer hath sent to cut off my head? Look then, when the messenger shall come, shut the door, and suffer him not to come in: for behold the sound of his master' s feet is behind him.

    1 Paralipomenon (1 Chronicles) 10:9
    And when they had stripped him, and cut off his head, and taken away his armour, they sent it into their land, to be carried about, and shewn in the temples of the idols and to the people.

    Judith 13:10
    And she struck twice upon his neck, and cut off his head, and took off his canopy from the pillars, and rolled away his headless body.

    Judith 13:27
    Judith said to him: The God of Israel, to whom thou gavest testimony, that he revengeth himself of his enemies, he hath cut off the head of all the unbelievers this night by my hand.

    Judith 16:11
    Her sandals ravished his eyes, her beauty made his soul her captive, with a sword she cut off his head.

    and do you remember the word "pisseth"?
    4 Kings (2 Kings) 9:8
    And I will destroy all the house of Achab, and I will cut off from Achab him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up, and the meanest in Israel
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7782
    • Reputation: +4577/-579
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #6 on: March 24, 2017, 08:16:30 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • All we need to know is that the Roman Catholic Church teaches that Jesus had no biological brothers or sisters.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5768
    • Reputation: +4621/-480
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #7 on: March 24, 2017, 08:50:06 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Outside of the beheading of St. John the Baptist do you remember all these beheadings in the Douay-Rheims? The Moslems are having a heyday with this, they are quoting these Bible verses to argue that the Bible is as violent as their evil book.
    These are all historical books and thus are reporting what happened.  None of these references were commands from God.  The Moslems book purports to give the commands of their god.  So, if someone tells you this in the future, just tell him how stupid he is and explain the facts.


    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11662
    • Reputation: +6989/-498
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #8 on: March 24, 2017, 09:26:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Of course the note is there, but that does not answer the question: how is it that an 1899 Catholic Bible used the words "sisters" in regard to Jesus?

    It is also in Mark:
    Mark 6:3
    1] And going out from thence, he went into his own country; and his disciples followed him. [2] And when the sabbath was come, he began to teach in the ѕуηαgσgυє: and many hearing him were in admiration at his doctrine, saying: How came this man by all these things? and what wisdom is this that is given to him, and such mighty works as are wrought by his hands? [3] Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? are not also his sisters here with us? And they were scandalized in regard of him. [4] And Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and in his own house, and among his own kindred.

    Yes, it does answer the question. That is why the note is there - to clarify for readers that these brethren were not his blood brothers and sisters but the children of Mary the wife of Cleophas, sister to our Blessed Lady, and so first cousins.

    Besides what have beheadings to do with this thread?

    Cantarella spelled in out in plainly and in full:

    All we need to know is that the Roman Catholic Church teaches that Jesus had no biological brothers or sisters.  
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #9 on: March 26, 2017, 01:40:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Outside of the beheading of St. John the Baptist do you remember all these beheadings in the Douay-Rheims? The Moslems are having a heyday with this, they are quoting these Bible verses to argue that the Bible is as violent as their evil book.

    1 Kings (1 Samuel) 31:9
    And they cut off Saul' s head, and stripped him of his armour, and sent into the land of the Philistines round about, to publish it in the temples of their idols, and among their people.
    27    

    2 Kings (2 Samuel) 16:9
    And Abisai the son of Sarvia said to the king: Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? I will go, and cut off his head.
    28    

    2 Kings (2 Samuel) 20:22
    So she went to all the people, and spoke to them wisely: and they cut off the head of Seba the son of Bochri, and cast it out to Joab. And he sounded the trumpet, and they departed from the city, every one to their home: and Joab returned to Jerusalem to the king.

    4 Kings (2 Kings) 6:32
    But Eliseus sat in his house, and the ancients sat with him. So he sent a man before: and before that messenger came, he said to the ancients: Do you know that this son of a murderer hath sent to cut off my head? Look then, when the messenger shall come, shut the door, and suffer him not to come in: for behold the sound of his master' s feet is behind him.

    1 Paralipomenon (1 Chronicles) 10:9
    And when they had stripped him, and cut off his head, and taken away his armour, they sent it into their land, to be carried about, and shewn in the temples of the idols and to the people.

    Judith 13:10
    And she struck twice upon his neck, and cut off his head, and took off his canopy from the pillars, and rolled away his headless body.

    Judith 13:27
    Judith said to him: The God of Israel, to whom thou gavest testimony, that he revengeth himself of his enemies, he hath cut off the head of all the unbelievers this night by my hand.

    Judith 16:11
    Her sandals ravished his eyes, her beauty made his soul her captive, with a sword she cut off his head.

    and do you remember the word "pisseth"?
    4 Kings (2 Kings) 9:8
    And I will destroy all the house of Achab, and I will cut off from Achab him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up, and the meanest in Israel
    What they fail to mention is how many times David had the opportunity to kill Saul, his enemy, and didn't.

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #10 on: March 26, 2017, 01:43:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Matthew 13:55-57Douay-Rheims
    1899 American Edition
    55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:
    56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence therefore hath he all these things?
    57 And they were scandalized in his regard. But Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
    What this refers to are his cousins and close friends who refered to him as their brother. We see this often. How many black people have refered to each other as "brother" and not been biological relatives? Many Mexicans who cross the border together and suffer hardships together consier themselves as "brothers." It has always been recognized as the same with Jesus and his "brothers."


    Online Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5208
    • Reputation: +2290/-1012
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #11 on: March 26, 2017, 03:46:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, it does answer the question. That is why the note is there - to clarify for readers that these brethren were not his blood brothers and sisters but the children of Mary the wife of Cleophas, sister to our Blessed Lady, and so first cousins.

    Besides what have beheadings to do with this thread?

    Cantarella spelled in out in plainly and in full:

    All we need to know is that the Roman Catholic Church teaches that Jesus had no biological brothers or sisters.  
    Thank you for asking what beheadings in the 1899 Douay have to do with Jesus purportedly having sisters. The words in the Bible are being changed.
    Think of verse you know well, such as Isiah 11:6 "The lion shall lie down with the lamb." (This is on Christmas cards and gifts I have been giving out for decades.) It no longer says that. It now says the wolf will lie down with the lamb. Some children's Bibles with images will show the lion, but the word has been changed to wolf.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Online Cera

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5208
    • Reputation: +2290/-1012
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #12 on: March 26, 2017, 03:48:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • All we need to know is that the Roman Catholic Church teaches that Jesus had no biological brothers or sisters.
    What you say would be true were it not for the fact that we live in a time of deception and "lying wonders."
    2 Thessalonians 2:9
     Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31179
    • Reputation: +27094/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #13 on: March 26, 2017, 04:05:20 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Cera,

    You've hit on no less than THREE topics in this thread -- basically you're looking for apologetics help to put to silence your (no doubt many) Protestant friends. I could be wrong, but you seem to be "bursting at the seams" with such questions, which sound like they come from Protestants.

    Of course people ask questions about the Faith here all the time. What makes it seem like you're "bursting at the seams" is that you've brought up 3 separate topics in the same thread.

    Are you getting assaulted by protestant objections to the Catholic Faith?

    If so, you really need to spend less time talking to Protestants and more time socializing with Catholics.

    If you are isolated from other Traditional Catholics, then I suggest spending more time with Traditional Catholics online. It's critically important to have Catholic friends. If none are available locally, then online friends are the next best thing.

    People always focus on the negative aspects of a forum like CathInfo -- members with characters flaws, the time wasting element, people that like to argue endlessly, people who hold an error or two about this or that -- but they forget that despite all that, CathInfo is a necessary thing. If for no other reason, it gives an outlet for isolated Trad Catholics to speak with other Trad Catholics.

    Not everyone lives in St. Mary's, KS, Post Falls, or a large Trad chapel in a high-population corridor like the East Coast.

    Some of us have minimal -- or even zero -- person-to-person contact with other Traditional Catholics. For such people, CathInfo isn't a "vice" like cigarettes, alcohol or TV -- it's more of a life-saving substance like food or water.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11662
    • Reputation: +6989/-498
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #14 on: March 26, 2017, 05:18:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you for asking what beheadings in the 1899 Douay have to do with Jesus purportedly having sisters. The words in the Bible are being changed.
    Think of verse you know well, such as Isiah 11:6 "The lion shall lie down with the lamb." (This is on Christmas cards and gifts I have been giving out for decades.) It no longer says that. It now says the wolf will lie down with the lamb. Some children's Bibles with images will show the lion, but the word has been changed to wolf.
    The Douay Rheims online gives this Isaias (Isaiah) 11:6 among other quotes referring to wolves and sheep and cattle and leopards and other presently incompatible animals. They are enemies as a result of man's sin. The message is that in the future things will be different when
    The wolf shall dwell with the lamb: and the leopard shall lie down with the kid: the calf and the lion, and the sheep shall abide together, and a little child shall lead them.

    This is a message of HOPE. It is what we are looking forward to when all will be peace and joy. It is most important to treat it as such, not as a way to find errors in translation. It is so easy to become disillusioned in our day, I know.
    As for lying wonders: yes, we are surrounded and immersed in them in today's world which is why God gave us His Church to teach and protect us. As St Paul tells us in the same chapter, we should [14] ... stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

    You and I take that seriously and know that these traditions of which St Paul speaks are the exactly what the Church gives us to follow. They are not the traditions of men.

    Stick with the Douay Rheims, which has the approval of the Church, pray to the Holy Spirit to guide you and have hope and try not to be too distressed by the state of the Church. Trust in Him. He has His plan in place and we don't need to worry ourselves, except to accept and do His Holy Will.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.