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Author Topic: It is unjust...  (Read 1881 times)

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Offline Pelly

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It is unjust...
« on: March 14, 2013, 04:11:22 PM »
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  • ... to defer one's Communion, even at when health problems exist.
    (I don't know if it should go to Health & Nutrition or Resistance Movement)
    Nowadays, the celiac agenda puts great pressure to the NO Church. Imagine if they do the same with the real Church.
    Since Communion is necessary, a disease such as celiac disease with no available cure is an impediment with incredible spiritual consequences. I've read of a case of NO Catholics becoming Protestants due to this.
    If you say fragging, then I think that it is not the best method. Fragging decreases the duration of the Presence, especially when there is little tolerance. If you say otherwise, then I share Trosch's words: a thicker host elongates the Presence, but makes the danger of profanation longer. I think that the size of the Particle is proportional to the duration of the Presence.
    The Chalice is offered to the laity only in extreme cases. And giving the Chalice to a layman on a Mass is illicit I think. The low-gluten hosts could keep their proportions without a dangerous amount of allergens, but giving attention that they were introduced recently, there is a chance that these "in-between" hosts were a NO invention and thus, tampered.
    Also, there is wheat allergy, which calls for the Chalice. Is there a canonically tolerable, hypoallergenic method? Or could it be made? Since these problems are spreading wide, it can clerical defience. So, we should make up resistance against the scarcity of cure, as if it isn't there a really hypoallergenic solution, then celiacs will stay at deaconate.


    Offline Pelly

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #1 on: March 16, 2013, 04:42:16 AM »
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  • EDIT: even SSPX does fragging. And their statement doesn't mention even low-gluten hosts. So, if the SSPX is not keen on giving the Chalice to a layman, then we need to push for a cure.


    Offline TKGS

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #2 on: March 16, 2013, 06:37:36 AM »
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  • Pelly,

    I implore you to stop worrying about every obscure issue confronting the Church today.

    What is "fragging"?  I looked it up and found that its only meaning in the dictionary is what I thought it meant, intentionally killing your own superior officers in war (specifically with a grenade).

    The true Church has already made allowances for such problems as celiac disease and there are absolutely no negative spiritual consequences for receiving a smaller portion of Holy Communion.  Furthermore, it should be noted that the faithful were much more fervent in the faith in years past when few received Holy Communion but once a year!  

    As for celiac disease, a physical intolerance to wheat gluten would be an absolute impediment to the priesthood just as any physicial deformity would be.  This fact has only become a problem in an era where the priesthood is viewed as a career rather than a vocation.  No one has the right to the priesthood and it is impossible for someone who cannot function as a priest to realistically believe he has a calling from God to be a priest.  He may, perhaps, be called to the religious life as a brother, but not to the ordained ministry.

    Too many people view Holy Communion more like a birthday cake than the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.  As such, whenever they go to the "party" that is the Novus Ordo (and, regrettably for some, the traditional Mass) they feel they have a right to receive Holy Communion no matter what, just as they would receive a slice of birthday cake at any birthday party they attended.  And these individuals see it as just plain mean that the Church won't do something so that they can be treated just like everyone else.

    The fact is that people with celiac disease are not like everyone else:  They cannot digest the gluten naturally occuring in wheat.  This means they have to take other measures to ensure that they do not injest anything containing gluten.  It's going to require them to make special arrangements each time they wish to receive Holy Communion.  If they have the Faith they will do so.  If not, they will depart from the Church.  It is sad when people do so, but to do so because they feel they have a right to be treated the same even though they are not in the same situation is especially troubling.


    Offline Pelly

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 06:49:53 AM »
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  • I took fragging from defragging, a computer procedure familiar with Windows users.
    Plus, the smaller the Particle, the less the Presence last, especially with thin hosts. Normally, without corrosive elements, even a little Crumb can survive. The Real Presence won't last so long if a very little crumb is administered to a communicant with a severe intolerance. In this case, the Species dissolve too early. Until there will be a more hypoallergenic solution or a cure is discovered, I think that celiacs should seek Byzantine churches and make arrangements on taking Communion under one species or a separate chalice if their allergies are too severe (if the Byzantines allow it).

    Offline TKGS

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 08:59:05 AM »
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  • I do not see any reason Byzantine Communion would be "safe" for a celiac.  Valid matter is the same no matter where you are though the Eastern Rites use leavened breat rather than unleavened bread.  A person with celiac disease would be unable to receive Communion under the Species of bread from any Rite.  If non-gluten wheat or a substitute such as rice-cakes is used, the Sacrament is not valid.

    You apparently did not understand what I wrote above.  A celiac must, of course, make special arrangements to receive Communion which is authorized in the Church.

    Further, I still do not understand your use of "fragging".  In any case, if you are going to seriously discuss issues of this import, please do not make up your own words.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 09:00:57 AM »
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  • Quote
    I think that celiacs should seek Byzantine churches and make arrangements on taking Communion under one species or a separate chalice if their allergies are too severe


    Sorry to say this, when I am not sure, but you give the impression that you want to stir doubt in the minds of Traditional Catholics.

    What does it matter to you anyway, for a person with celiacs that they should seek the Byzantine church.    Where is your faith, have you not heard that for some people the host has remained present within their soul, from one communion to another.  God can do all things.
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Sigismund

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 10:09:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    I do not see any reason Byzantine Communion would be "safe" for a celiac.  Valid matter is the same no matter where you are though the Eastern Rites use leavened breat rather than unleavened bread.  A person with celiac disease would be unable to receive Communion under the Species of bread from any Rite.  If non-gluten wheat or a substitute such as rice-cakes is used, the Sacrament is not valid.

    You apparently did not understand what I wrote above.  A celiac must, of course, make special arrangements to receive Communion which is authorized in the Church.

    Further, I still do not understand your use of "fragging".  In any case, if you are going to seriously discuss issues of this import, please do not make up your own words.


    Under ordinary circuмstances it wouldn't.  The Bread is placed in the Wine and given on a spoon to the communicant.  However, I don't see why one could not receive the Lord's Blood alone.  That would be easy enough in the Byzantine rite.  It seems to me that even in the traditional Latin rite an exception could be made for medical reasons.

    As for receiving in a Byzantine church as a routine solution for celiacs, there are large swaths of the the country, not to mention the world, where no Byzantine churches are available.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Pelly

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 11:22:45 AM »
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  • I've heard of a miraculous Communion of a Saint. But nowadays, there are a few Eucharistic miracles. Presumption of a miracle was criticized by SSPX. And you know, getting the Exact Matter by inducing the miracle by threats is under pain of a reserved excommunication. Fragmenting is only permissible when there's too many communicants, but only to a lesser extent - you know, this reduces the duration of the Presence. Severe celiac disease or wheat allergy may prescribe going to a Byzantine church. Also, a minority of celiacs suffer from grape intolerance, thus giving the necessity of the Exact Matters.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 11:41:04 AM »
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  • Quote
    But nowadays, there are a few Eucharistic miracles


    How do you know?   Our Lady told us, she will work miracles in secret.

    Where is your faith?

    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline songbird

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 01:35:18 PM »
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  • Some can take just a crumb and Christ is there, totally.  And spiritual communion is available.  

    Offline Pelly

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 01:50:33 PM »
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  • But you just can't pull the (full) Real Presence. I've heard of an extraordinary reception, but this is a miracle and can't be reproduced by human works.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 01:57:40 PM »
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  • Pelly, don't worry about it, God is in charge.  

    Worry instead about your own soul.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Emerentiana

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    It is unjust...
    « Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 03:57:00 PM »
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  • The gluten that causes allergies is an ADDITIVE added to flour.  This additive is manufactured in  China
    Yes, wheat flour also contains natural gluten, but the additive is whats causing so many allergic reactions.  Chek out the large group pf additives containing gluten.
    The little tiny amount of glutin that you consume in the host should be of no concern.
    Really!  I wouldnt give up communion even if I had severe celiac disease!

    Offline Pelly

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    « Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 04:11:36 PM »
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  • I thought that the excess gluten came from GM wheat.

    Offline Emerentiana

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    « Reply #14 on: March 16, 2013, 04:27:58 PM »
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  • Pelly, you are right!  Thats probably one of the causes of increased Celiac disease.