Author Topic: Is this the worst it has ever been? (Read 1696 times)

Napoli · « **Reply #15 on:** May 27, 2013, 09:28:51 PM »

I read that too. Aryans were tan colored. I wonder how that would sit with nαzι's?

poche · « **Reply #16 on:** June 01, 2013, 05:31:15 AM »

Here is what it was like in what is now St Louis Mo during the 1790s;
St. Pierre sends the parish census from October 1, 1795 to October 1, 1796. Father (Pierre Josef) Didier, (O.S.B.) sent a similar one last year. St. Pierre cannot state the increase in population because Didier forgot to leave a copy of the census. He cannot list those who have not fulfilled their Easter duty because many told him that they had done so in his absence. The parish income is about 200 pesos, money is scarce. Expenses were 60 pesos. The sacristan, called a "Marguillier" receives a measure of wheat from each family every year; the office of Majordomo is unknown here. In order to avoid difficulties he has not published the new tax as, once, when he intended to use the new tax, all protested and stopped bringing the measure of wheat. They are not obliged to pay a fixed sum but to give what they like; sometimes, they pay with lead, very common there. Common faults are:
1. Profanation of Sundays by making the servants work.
2. Neglect of divine service; dances of free men and slaves lasting through the night of Sundays.
3. Excessive association with mulatto and negro women.
4. A general dread on the part of young men for legal marriage.
5. Drunkenness of the Indians who commit great crimes when drunk. Remedies he thinks adequate are:
For points 1. and 2, More severe penalties by civil authorities.
For points 3 and 4, Absolute prohibition of these meetings of young men during the night and especially those women liberated from slavery.
For point 5, Traders are severely punished according to the laws which are published and violated with impunity.
Preaching is insufficient if civil authorities do not help. He rings the church bell three times a day but it is so small that it is scarcely heard next door. He asks Penalver to remind the Governor that he had promised a bigger one. The greatest need is a public school and teacher as the above troubles come from the lack of it.
P.S. He is sending a vessel for the sacred oils and asks that it be returned for Holy thursday. Father Didier got some from Bishop (John Carroll) of Baltimore last year but St. Pierre has not received them. The royal decree of December 27, 1787 has not been published here. It should be published and enforced as this ordains effective penalties for persons giving scandal. Another note on October 1, adds that he has just received news from the parish of St. Louis that some mad Frenchmen in the last few days were running around shouting: "Vive la liberte, vive l'egualite" and singing songs against religion. He thinks the instigators are the people of the United States of America who think that the king is going to exchange the Province of Louisiana for part of the one- time Spanish Island of Santo Domingo. If this happens he begs to be considered a member of the Spanish clergy.

poche · « **Reply #17 on:** June 01, 2013, 05:36:56 AM »

Here is the bishop's exhortatiion for a pastor to do more;
1796 Jan. 8
Penalver y Cardenas, Luis Bishop
(New Orleans)

to Father Sebastien Flavian,
?Besancon, O.M.C.?
(St. Charles of les Allemands)
The Bishop states: 1) That he received Father Flavian's letter of last Dec. 29 as well as the census of the parish of St. Charles of the first coast of Les Allemands of its need and of other occurrences.
2) That with sorrow he read that out of 2,232 souls mentioned in the census only eight have fulfilled their obligations towards the Church during the year 1795. This could not be but for the pastor's indolence. He has to go after the sheep in the woods if they are so untamed.
3) That Father Flavian must preach every Sunday, holidays, and whenever it may be necessary. If the parishioners do not come to church to listen to God's teachings, he must go to their houses either with exhortation or reproaches, according to the circuмstances. Not all will be so deaf as not to listen to him.
4) Accordingly, that Father Flavian must visit the parishioners and remind them of their obligations as Christians. He must do so with all the lower class people and exhort them to send their slaves to church.
5) That Father Flavian should act with gentleness and charity in order to make the parishioners docile and tractable when they understand that they do not have other aim than the salvation of their souls. However, the fact that Father Flavian contents himself with saying that only eight of his flock are obedient whereas 2,224 are rebellious, makes the Bishop consider him as usto make the law effective.
10) That he does not see any reason why the parishioners should notify the pastor before the burial or the Baptism of a slave, but that they could do so as they bring the corpse or the one to be baptised, attending however, to the details for the entry and clarity of the books.
11) That whenever the pastor is called to administer the sacraments he must be accompanied by an assistant. The same holds for the Mass on holy days.
12) Finally, that Father Flavian has to give account to God of 2,232 souls under his care and it is very bad administration to gain only eight out of this number, while the others remain astray. Father Flavian must work with this in mind so that nothing will be difficult to him, and his efforts will be agreeable.
13) That in regard to the rest of Father Flavian's letter about the local situation of the church and when he may come to New Orleans, he will talk with the Bishop who will then decide what is suitable.
Signed by the Bishop of Louisiana.

IV-5-f A.L.S. 3pp. 8vo. (Spanish)
eless servant.
6) That Father Flavian should preach to the parishioners not to give private Baptism unless in case of necessity. As soon as he learns of any birth he must go to the house within eight days and ask the parents to bring the child to church for the sacrament, according to instructions of the King.
7) That Father Flavian must make up the marriage records and warn the parties to confess four or eight days before the marriage. They who do not obey this order cannot be married. they will serve as example for the others.
That although the inhabitants want the slaves to be baptised without instruction, Father Flavian must not allow exhorting the masters to give them the necessary instructions.
9) That he must reproach those who make the slaves work on days of obligation; they have to dedicate the day to Our Lord. Moreover, Father Flavian should notify the commander, who has the necessary jurisdiction

Nadir · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2013, 09:33:47 PM »

Quote from: Iuvenalis

I believe during the Aryan heresy something like 75% of the bishops were in heresy

And now?

Nadir · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2013, 09:36:16 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I think this has to be the worst crisis that the Church has ever been through, even worse than the Aryan crisis. How many of the world's Bishops did anything to fight for the faith after the crisis started? Three? Lefebvre, the Bishop of Campos, and Thuc. Was that all?

There must have been others, but not many and they did not do much.

Let's not forget Cardinal Mindzenty and his ilk, locked up behind the iron and bamboo curtains. They never got a look-in at Vat2, by the way.