Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Sacred: Catholic Liturgy, Chant, Prayers => Topic started by: Cryptinox on April 01, 2021, 03:26:08 PM
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Assuming the V2 Popes weren't popes would it be a sin to attend an SSPX mass if you have other Eastern Rites near you even if it is on a weekday? I am asking because I have only been to diocesan and ICKSP and have been going to byzantine on Sunday but don't want to go to the sede chapel near me since I don't hold that position and don't want to be guilty of schism so I am going to try to obey Francis' non heretical teachings and only attend masses where he is prayed for. However this thread is not about my position on the crisis it is just on this question. I was reading a novus ordo site and they say a mass with no Crucifix on the altar would be valid but illicit yet would still fulfill your Sunday obligation.
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Assuming the V2 Popes weren't popes would it be a sin to attend an SSPX mass if you have other Eastern Rites near you even if it is on a weekday? I am asking because I have only been to diocesan and ICKSP and have been going to byzantine on Sunday but don't want to go to the sede chapel near me since I don't hold that position and don't want to be guilty of schism so I am going to try to obey Francis' non heretical teachings and only attend masses where he is prayed for. However this thread is not about my position on the crisis it is just on this question. I was reading a novus ordo site and they say a mass with no Crucifix on the altar would be valid but illicit yet would still fulfill your Sunday obligation.
I'd like this answered soon since if I wanna go I'd have to leave at 6:25 or 6:30 EST pm
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Not sure that I completely follow your question, but I would go to the SSPX Mass if you are not comfortable attending the sede chapel.
And hurry up so you get a good seat! ;)
P.S. Please remember to pray for Shin.
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Even the VII hierarchy says it's not a sin.
Excerpt from letter of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, January 18, 2003
His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:
"2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."
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As long as it's a valid Catholic mass, supplied jurisdiction allows it in this Crisis, brah.
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Even the VII hierarchy says it's not a sin.
Excerpt from letter of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, January 18, 2003
His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:
"2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."
That's for SSPX tho, He's asking if a sedeplenist can attend a Sedevacantist mass, which is harder to answer,
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Even the VII hierarchy says it's not a sin.
Excerpt from letter of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, January 18, 2003
His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:
"2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."
Right, and the NO Code of Canon Law says you can go to any valid Rite of Mass for just reason (vs. I guess formally adhering to the schism). That's one of the many paradoxes of the NO. Conservative NO-ites claim it's wrong to go to the SSPX Masses when their own hierarchy says otherwise. They would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє, but it's OK for Wojtyla, Ratzinger, and Bergoglio to do it.
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That's for SSPX tho, He's asking if a sedeplenist can attend a Sedevacantist mass, which is harder to answer,
No, it's not. 1983 Code of Canon Law says it's allowed for a Catholic to attend valid Masses of non-Catholics provided there's some just cause ... including even a full-blown schismatic Orthodox one ... and that these even meet the Sunday obligation. So if these guys are your hierarchy, then they said it was OK.
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I'd like this answered soon since if I wanna go I'd have to leave at 6:25 or 6:30 EST pm
Did you end up going C? How was it?
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Did you end up going C? How was it?
Went to the Ruthenian Parish. I don't have a license and I can't always convince people to drive 20 miles. It was pretty good and I served at the altar and I had the priest bless some Icons I had bought off of ebay. I also bought some Slavic Easter egg sleeves. However my dad was upset cause he came at 8:00 and was mad I did not say sorry right away though I had implied it in what I said when I was explaining. I might go to SSPX some other time. The thread was more about St. Joseph in the canon since I doubt the legitimacy of John XXIII.
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Right, and the NO Code of Canon Law says you can go to any valid Rite of Mass for just reason (vs. I guess formally adhering to the schism). That's one of the many paradoxes of the NO. Conservative NO-ites claim it's wrong to go to the SSPX Masses when their own hierarchy says otherwise. They would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє, but it's OK for Wojtyla, Ratzinger, and Bergoglio to do it.
A conservative NO would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє? I don't think so.
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A conservative NO would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє? I don't think so.
They'd give the whole "eLdEr BrOtHeRs iN tHr F8h" nonsense to justify praying in a ѕуηαgσgυє.
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A conservative NO would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє? I don't think so.
No, I know enough of them. They denounce the local Seder meal at their NO church, going to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє or Orthodox church, or even SSPX ... but then do the old see no evil, hear no evil routine when it comes to the V2 papal claimants. It’s like the old The Wanderer publication which would excoriate one bishop after another for interreligious services but then ignore it when Wojtyla did the same thing or worse. If, say, an NO bishop had gotten a mark of Shiva on his forehead, they’d go ape over it, but then justify Wojtyla doing it.
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No, it's not. 1983 Code of Canon Law says it's allowed for a Catholic to attend valid Masses of non-Catholics provided there's some just cause ... including even a full-blown schismatic Orthodox one ... and that these even meet the Sunday obligation. So if these guys are your hierarchy, then they said it was OK.
I guess that's fair (assuming you can't R and R that) but one could theoretically argue that "I don't think Francis is the Pope so I'd rather go to a mass where he isn't prayed for" *doesn't* constitute a just reason.
All that said the bigger issue here is probably believing the see has been vacant for the past 60 years, and probably less so "the nearest latin mass was a CMRI for some reason" from the "Normie perspective"
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No, I know enough of them. They denounce the local Seder meal at their NO church, going to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє or Orthodox church, or even SSPX ... but then do the old see no evil, hear no evil routine when it comes to the V2 papal claimants. It’s like the old The Wanderer publication which would excoriate one bishop after another for interreligious services but then ignore it when Wojtyla did the same thing or worse. If, say, an NO bishop had gotten a mark of Shiva on his forehead, they’d go ape over it, but then justify Wojtyla doing it.
I don't doubt that that is what you've experienced. But having been a conservative NO myself at one time, I know this wasn't fully true for me and for many others with whom I was friendly/went to church...especially when it came to anything Jєωιѕн. I was always encouraged to take part in my family's celebrations. Perhaps what you speak of is more prevalent of those who go to the diocesan TLM or an indult.
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I don't doubt that that is what you've experienced. But having been a conservative NO myself at one time, I know this wasn't fully true for me and for many others with whom I was friendly/went to church...especially when it came to anything Jєωιѕн. I was always encouraged to take part in my family's celebrations. Perhaps what you speak of is more prevalent of those who go to the diocesan TLM or an indult.
Everything is gonna vary based on location. On Eastern Long Island laypeople regularly go to the SSPX and Indult interchangeably and nobody cares. Plenty of people even attend both each sunday.
So the whole "avoid SSPX like the plague" doesn't really apply to indulters *in my experience* but I know other people's are gonna vary.
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No, it's not. 1983 Code of Canon Law says it's allowed for a Catholic to attend valid Masses of non-Catholics provided there's some just cause ... including even a full-blown schismatic Orthodox one ... and that these even meet the Sunday obligation. So if these guys are your hierarchy, then they said it was OK.
Alright lemme explain what my convictions are on this matter. Note that I'm not saying *anyone else* has to do what I think is right, or that I'm necessarily fully consistent, just this is basically my best judgment right now.
I'd probably get broadly categorized as "Loosely Neo-SSPX" by people on here, which I still think is distinguishable from FSSP but we've talked about that before.
I have an SSPX 30 minutes away from me. And I have an SSPV an hour away from me. Having a completely acceptable SSPX (I don't have an issue with the NO rites of ordination, but he's traditionally ordained as well if that were a concern), *I personally* feel that to *regularly* choose to attend SSPV when I have a perfectly acceptable SSPX option that's closer would be to effectively reject communion with Francis.
And since I believe (while I wouldn't say I have certainty of faith, I believe I'm obliged to give the benefit of the doubt so to speak) that Francis does indeed hold the papal office, I believe I'm obliged to, if possible, pray for him daily and attend a mass that prays for him.
I don't know if the '83 code defines just cause, but like, if I lived in a place where my only options were Sede mass or NO mass, I would consider that a just cause to attend the Sede mass That's because I believe objectively speaking the NO mass has been protestantized and thus is best avoided. In that situation I'd kinda be like... yeah there's no intent to break communion with Francis here, I'd rather have an SSPX mass, but I still think going to the Sede mass is better than not attending mass at all (and I think due to the great confusion that we're currently in, I do still view the Sede chapel as a Catholic Church, so I'm not even gonna address the Orthodoxy thing as that adds an additional layer of complexity to things.)
Similarly, if my only options were indult or NO, I understand why other people's convictions are different, but I would in that situation go to the FSSP parish. However, I think to *regularly* attend the FSSP parish when one has an SSPX parish close by (like less than an hour I think) one implicitly affirms the legitimacy of the NO, 'cause its like... otherwise why wouldn't you attend an SSPX over an FSSP?
I think occasional visits to a place one doesn't fully agree with (And again I'm talking about Catholic parishes, I'm not talking about non Catholic places of worship, I'm talking like an SSPX person visiting an indult or sede chapel) can be OK. I don't think "I go to the FSSP every now and then for fellowship" says you agree with them in the same way that "I go there for mass every week instead of the SSPX does."
So yeah, basically, I wouldn't go to a Sede parish regularly if I had some other option (non NO.) I'd honestly rather pick a Byzantine or Indult chapel under most conditions with where I'm at right now, barring Corona mandates which are honestly kind of my #1 issue with churches at this point (I won't wear masks in church period as I think its disrespectful).
All that said, I certainly have no *authority* to tell anyone *else* they can't attend a Sede chapel for whatever reasons seem good to them.
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Yeah my concern is more about the 1962 missal being possibly illicit. I would like to attend Easter Vigil at SSPX tonight too but I have Eastern Catholic Churches near me that I know would be valid and licit. However I would like to worship in the latin rite.
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The 55 Holy Week is what would be used for the vigil