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Author Topic: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?  (Read 25843 times)

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Offline Cryptinox

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Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
« on: April 01, 2021, 03:26:08 PM »
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    • Assuming the V2 Popes weren't popes would it be a sin to attend an SSPX mass if you have other Eastern Rites near you even if it is on a weekday? I am asking because I have only been to diocesan and ICKSP and have been going to byzantine on Sunday but don't want to go to the sede chapel near me since I don't hold that position and don't want to be guilty of schism so I am going to try to obey Francis' non heretical teachings and only attend masses where he is prayed for. However this thread is not about my position on the crisis it is just on this question. I was reading a novus ordo site and they say a mass with no Crucifix on the altar would be valid but illicit yet would still fulfill your Sunday obligation.
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    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #1 on: April 01, 2021, 03:59:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cryptinox on April 01, 2021, 03:26:08 PM
    Assuming the V2 Popes weren't popes would it be a sin to attend an SSPX mass if you have other Eastern Rites near you even if it is on a weekday? I am asking because I have only been to diocesan and ICKSP and have been going to byzantine on Sunday but don't want to go to the sede chapel near me since I don't hold that position and don't want to be guilty of schism so I am going to try to obey Francis' non heretical teachings and only attend masses where he is prayed for. However this thread is not about my position on the crisis it is just on this question. I was reading a novus ordo site and they say a mass with no Crucifix on the altar would be valid but illicit yet would still fulfill your Sunday obligation.
    I'd like this answered soon since if I wanna go I'd have to leave at 6:25 or 6:30 EST pm
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #2 on: April 01, 2021, 04:36:20 PM »
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    • Not sure that I completely follow your question, but I would go to the SSPX Mass if you are not comfortable attending the sede chapel.

    And hurry up so you get a good seat! ;)

    P.S. Please remember to pray for Shin.
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    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #3 on: April 01, 2021, 10:59:55 PM »
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    • Even the VII hierarchy says it's not a sin.

    Excerpt from letter of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, January 18, 2003

    His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:

    "2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."
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    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline Project Artichoke

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #4 on: April 02, 2021, 02:23:14 AM »
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    • As long as it's a valid Catholic mass, supplied jurisdiction allows it in this Crisis, brah.
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #5 on: April 02, 2021, 06:24:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Emile on April 01, 2021, 10:59:55 PM
    Even the VII hierarchy says it's not a sin.

    Excerpt from letter of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, January 18, 2003

    His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:

    "2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."
    That's for SSPX tho,  He's asking if a sedeplenist can attend a Sedevacantist mass, which is harder to answer,
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #6 on: April 02, 2021, 10:19:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Emile on April 01, 2021, 10:59:55 PM
    Even the VII hierarchy says it's not a sin.

    Excerpt from letter of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, January 18, 2003

    His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:

    "2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."

    Right, and the NO Code of Canon Law says you can go to any valid Rite of Mass for just reason (vs. I guess formally adhering to the schism).  That's one of the many paradoxes of the NO.  Conservative NO-ites claim it's wrong to go to the SSPX Masses when their own hierarchy says otherwise.  They would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє, but it's OK for Wojtyla, Ratzinger, and Bergoglio to do it.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #7 on: April 02, 2021, 10:21:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on April 02, 2021, 06:24:48 AM
    That's for SSPX tho,  He's asking if a sedeplenist can attend a Sedevacantist mass, which is harder to answer,

    No, it's not.  1983 Code of Canon Law says it's allowed for a Catholic to attend valid Masses of non-Catholics provided there's some just cause ... including even a full-blown schismatic Orthodox one ... and that these even meet the Sunday obligation.  So if these guys are your hierarchy, then they said it was OK.
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #8 on: April 02, 2021, 01:04:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cryptinox on April 01, 2021, 03:59:50 PM
    I'd like this answered soon since if I wanna go I'd have to leave at 6:25 or 6:30 EST pm
    Did you end up going C? How was it?
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    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #9 on: April 02, 2021, 01:42:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Emile on April 02, 2021, 01:04:45 PM
    Did you end up going C? How was it?
    Went to the Ruthenian Parish. I don't have a license and I can't always convince people to drive 20 miles. It was pretty good and I served at the altar and I had the priest bless some Icons I had bought off of ebay. I also bought some Slavic Easter egg sleeves. However my dad was upset cause he came at 8:00 and was mad I did not say sorry right away though I had implied it in what I said when I was explaining. I might go to SSPX some other time. The thread was more about St. Joseph in the canon since I doubt the legitimacy of John XXIII.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #10 on: April 02, 2021, 02:58:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 02, 2021, 10:19:07 AM
    Right, and the NO Code of Canon Law says you can go to any valid Rite of Mass for just reason (vs. I guess formally adhering to the schism).  That's one of the many paradoxes of the NO.  Conservative NO-ites claim it's wrong to go to the SSPX Masses when their own hierarchy says otherwise.  They would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє, but it's OK for Wojtyla, Ratzinger, and Bergoglio to do it.
    A conservative NO would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє?  I don't think so.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #11 on: April 02, 2021, 07:58:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 02, 2021, 02:58:40 PM
    A conservative NO would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє?  I don't think so.
    They'd give the whole "eLdEr BrOtHeRs iN tHr F8h" nonsense to justify praying in a ѕуηαgσgυє.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #12 on: April 02, 2021, 09:14:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 02, 2021, 02:58:40 PM
    A conservative NO would be aghast if a Catholic went to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє?  I don't think so.

    No, I know enough of them.  They denounce the local Seder meal at their NO church, going to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє or Orthodox church, or even SSPX ... but then do the old see no evil, hear no evil routine when it comes to the V2 papal claimants.  It’s like the old The Wanderer publication which would excoriate one bishop after another for interreligious services but then ignore it when Wojtyla did the same thing or worse.  If, say, an NO bishop had gotten a mark of Shiva on his forehead, they’d go ape over it, but then justify Wojtyla doing it.
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #13 on: April 03, 2021, 12:37:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 02, 2021, 10:21:05 AM
    No, it's not.  1983 Code of Canon Law says it's allowed for a Catholic to attend valid Masses of non-Catholics provided there's some just cause ... including even a full-blown schismatic Orthodox one ... and that these even meet the Sunday obligation.  So if these guys are your hierarchy, then they said it was OK.
    I guess that's fair (assuming you can't R and R that) but one could theoretically argue that "I don't think Francis is the Pope so I'd rather go to a mass where he isn't prayed for" *doesn't* constitute a just reason.


    All that said the bigger issue here is probably believing the see has been vacant for the past 60 years, and probably less so "the nearest latin mass was a CMRI for some reason" from the "Normie perspective"
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Is attending an illicit mass a sin?
    « Reply #14 on: April 03, 2021, 05:52:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 02, 2021, 09:14:11 PM
    No, I know enough of them.  They denounce the local Seder meal at their NO church, going to pray at a ѕуηαgσgυє or Orthodox church, or even SSPX ... but then do the old see no evil, hear no evil routine when it comes to the V2 papal claimants.  It’s like the old The Wanderer publication which would excoriate one bishop after another for interreligious services but then ignore it when Wojtyla did the same thing or worse.  If, say, an NO bishop had gotten a mark of Shiva on his forehead, they’d go ape over it, but then justify Wojtyla doing it.
    I don't doubt that that is what you've experienced.  But having been a conservative NO myself at one time, I know this wasn't fully true for me and for many others with whom I was friendly/went to church...especially when it came to anything Jєωιѕн.  I was always encouraged to take part in my family's celebrations.  Perhaps what you speak of is more prevalent of those who go to the diocesan TLM or an indult.  
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)
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