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Author Topic: Infant Baptism  (Read 611 times)

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Offline Devekut

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Infant Baptism
« on: October 12, 2013, 05:59:10 PM »
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  • So, I'm trying to plan out a baptism for my unborn daughter. I've never been to a tridentine rite baptism before and I'm not sure of all the details. Does the baptism happen before the actual mass or does it take happen within the mass?

    Thanks!


    Offline Cantarella

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    Infant Baptism
    « Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 06:00:32 PM »
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  • Mine took place on a Saturday after Mass.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Devekut

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    Infant Baptism
    « Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 06:08:44 PM »
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  • After mass? I thought that it would be before mass, such as the case with marriage.

    Also, the cantor I am working with suggests that we use Gregorian mass of Our Lady. Are there any hymns (organum, preferably) that anyone can recommend?

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Infant Baptism
    « Reply #3 on: October 12, 2013, 06:08:47 PM »
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  • After (or between) mass(es).  The rite begins outside of the Church.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Devekut

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    Infant Baptism
    « Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 06:19:56 PM »
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  • Yes, I'm aware that it starts outside. I guess I was confused because of that. I wasn't sure about whether the mass started after the baptism was done. I plan on forming a small schola of all males (monastic! :) ), including myself, for the mass. I think it'd be great to sing for my little girl's first mass. I want to keep everything as traditional as possible; all medieval music.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Infant Baptism
    « Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 06:36:41 PM »
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  • Does your chapel have more than one mass?  At our chapel, baptisms typically happen after low mass, before high mass-- if you only have one mass, my guess would be that it would be after, though obviously your priest would know for sure.  
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Devekut

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    Infant Baptism
    « Reply #6 on: October 12, 2013, 06:53:52 PM »
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  • The church (my old parish) offers two masses on Saturdays - 8am and 5pm. It's run by the Norbertines. But yeah...it'll probably be around 11am or so.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Infant Baptism
    « Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 11:37:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Devekut
    Yes, I'm aware that it starts outside. I guess I was confused because of that. I wasn't sure about whether the mass started after the baptism was done. I plan on forming a small schola of all males (monastic! :), including myself, for the mass. I think it'd be great to sing for my little girl's first mass. I want to keep everything as traditional as possible; all medieval music.



    This is very interesting.  I'd like to know what you find out.

    I'd say ask your priest.  I have been in small groups who sang
    some chant for infant baptism.   It would just be whatever the
    priest says is appropriate.  All in all, I imagine that if the choir
    was removed by distance, like in the choir loft or in a detached
    hallway, they could just be singing all the time, background-wise,
    but if you are the father and you want to be up close, that wouldn't
    be practical.  So there would have to be certain moments when
    you would step back and sing, then step forward and join the
    ceremony again.  So the schola shouldn't be more than 10 feet
    away, probably.   They should sing softly so as not to upset the
    baby!!  (A crying baby at Baptism can be a bit of a problem.)


    You might consider the following ideas for music:

    Vidi Aquam (sung during ritual before Mass)

    Sicut Cervus <--YouTubelink - Palestrina (most beautiful when
    done very softly - If you have three Tenors and a Bass you
    can transpose the Soprano part down one octave and keep
    the Alto as is, with the Tenor part, and the three Tenors cover
    those.)

    Ubi Caritas<--YouTube link - Duruflé (Maurice Duruflé isn't medieval
    but this work will knock your socks off!  Has parts for up to
    5 voices - amazing! There is a YouTube of it being done in St.
    Peter's Bernini Square last month, but the music quality is
    TERRIBLE.  The conductor is an idiot, but the singers are very
    good, just under incompetent leadership!)  

    Ave Maria <--YouTube link, duration 2:30 sung by the Ave
    Sol Chamber Choir. - composer: the incomparable Tomás
    Luis de Victoria +1611

    Panis Angelicus <-- YouTub link (Sopranos and Altos S-L-I-D-E a lot!)
    - by Fr. Lambilotte - Again, not really midieval, but very, very
    good for your situation!  Excellent example of a piece that the
    Soprano AND Alto taken down one octave makes a WONDERFUL
    4-part men's motet with CLOSE harmony!!  This piece is for the
    Blessed Sacrament, but Baptism is really about the closest thing
    to the Eucharist in all creation.  So it's not inappropriate.  But
    musically, this (Panis) would be second to none for your
    men's schola!


    (If your singers have much experience with sacred choral
    music, they probably already know these monumental works,
    but what they may well not have considered is that men's only
    choirs can sing them by taking the Soprano (and maybe Alto too)
    down one octave.)




    Linked above:  The Cambridge Singers, Sicut Cervus/Palestrina!

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/0yd5EE0hAB8[/youtube]

    Cambridge Singers, directed by John Rutter.  I sang under his
    direction and he said it was like "driving a Rolls Royce."  That was
    a big compliment from a British national like him!





    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Infant Baptism
    « Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 11:52:26 PM »
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  • .

    Forgot to mention:  with a little practice, the men who sing the
    parts that are taken down one octave won't need to have new
    music drawn up.  You can visualize the part right off the page
    as is, because it's the same notes only written an octave higher
    than you'll be singing them.  It takes about 5 or 10 minutes to
    get used to the idea, and then you're OFF TO THE RACES!!



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Devekut

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    Infant Baptism
    « Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 05:33:29 AM »
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  • You know, I never even considered having the schola chant in the background during the baptism, as if it is some sort of background prayer. I really want to have a semi private mass (of course it would be open to the public) to be offered for my daughter after the baptism but the pastor of the church said that it is very uncommon and it would be considered a favour. In all honesty I do not see this request to be any different from a marriage/mass. The marriage takes place before the mass. Technically you can be married without a mass but that is rare. He suggested that I attend the NO afterwards. I respectfully declined his invitation and asked him to find another priest to offer the mass if it wouldn't be too big of a hassle.

    I sure hope it goes through!

    Thanks for the song suggestions. One song I really like is Inviolata. I've never heard it performed organum before...it might be interesting.