Author Topic: If the New Mass were... (Read 1438 times)

Kephapaulos · « **on:** November 20, 2006, 12:31:10 AM »

...said in Latin entirely, used Eucharistic Prayer I, done with the priest facing the altar or ad orientem with the communion rail and receiving on the tongue, and involved all other strict rubrics according to the 1970 Pauline rite, it would still be deficient though, correct?

If all NOMs in theory were said in the manner described above, what would that mean for those who fight for the TLM?

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2006, 09:50:33 AM »

Well, other things happened as a result of Vatian II besides the Novus Ordo Missae.

For instance "Lumen Gentium" which gave the Church a new relationship with the modern world -- a very unusual relationship, I must say, for a Church founded by One who was crucified by the world.

The other docuмents likewise had ambiguities and novelties -- carefully wrapped in Catholic statements of course -- which are anything but "clearly Catholic". They need to be thrown out, so the Church can return to the drawing board, if the docuмents are really needed.

The docuмents that came out of Vatican II are so tainted with modernist ideas, that they need to be thrown out. They are beyond salvage.

So besides the fact that the above hypothetical situation wouldn't happen, it is also clear that a "universal reverent Novus Ordo" would clash with OTHER things which came from Vatican II -- namely, universal salvation, false ecuмenism, embracing of the modern (liberal) world, etc.

In Christ,

Matthew

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2006, 09:47:27 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Well, other things happened as a result of Vatian II besides the Novus Ordo Missae.

For instance "Lumen Gentium" which gave the Church a new relationship with the modern world -- a very unusual relationship, I must say, for a Church founded by One who was crucified by the world.

The other docuмents likewise had ambiguities and novelties -- carefully wrapped in Catholic statements of course -- which are anything but "clearly Catholic". They need to be thrown out, so the Church can return to the drawing board, if the docuмents are really needed.

Really needed for what?

Quote from: Chantcd

The docuмents that came out of Vatican II are so tainted with modernist ideas, that they need to be thrown out. They are beyond salvage.

So besides the fact that the above hypothetical situation wouldn't happen, it is also clear that a "universal reverent Novus Ordo" would clash with OTHER things which came from Vatican II -- namely, universal salvation, false ecuмenism, embracing of the modern (liberal) world, etc.

In Christ,

Matthew

I see. For one thing, the NOM is still not the actual Roman Mass even if done with Eucharistic Prayer I too since it has a different consecration formula. I would have to check though if the Latin words in the Roman Canon itself were also somewhat changed. I see Vatican II now as having been merely the vehicle by which the modernism and the New Theology could spread itself throughout the Church.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2006, 11:14:39 AM »

Quote from: Kephapaulos

... it would still be deficient though, correct?

To posit that a rite of Holy Church is (or even could be) "deficient" is rather serious, Kepha.

Quote

If all NOMs in theory were said in the manner described above, what would that mean for those who fight for the TLM?

Things are not done 'in theory', but are done 'in reality'. If such a thing were actually done, it would mean nothing - as the problem is much bigger.