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Author Topic: If Benedict is still Pope...  (Read 1351 times)

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Offline SimpleMan

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If Benedict is still Pope...
« on: January 12, 2022, 06:42:04 PM »
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    • Then when he dies, do we still have a state of sede vacante until Francis dies or resigns?  (He's not going to resign, not until everyone has given him his way on the TLM, so I guess that kind of narrows down the options.)

    Or, assuming he is a Catholic and is eligible to be Pope, would he then become Pope due to (near-) universal acceptance, the acceptance he already has, even though, if Benedict is still Pope, that acceptance is a moot point for now?  IOW, would (near-) universal acceptance, when Benedict dies, be enough to "make him Pope", absence of a valid conclave notwithstanding?

    Or would it follow that, since Francis was never validly elected (due to Benedict having never ceased to be Pope for whatever reason one might advance), the only way a new Pope can be had, is for there to be a valid papal election?  (Quite obviously there wouldn't be a conclave to "make Francis Pope now".)

    Again, all of this assumes that one accepts Benedict as having been a valid Pope in the first place.

    Thoughts?
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #1 on: January 12, 2022, 06:47:41 PM »
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    • The latter position is what the Bennies hold to, if I am remembering correctly. If Benedict dies, then there would be a sede vacante, in their eyes.
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Online Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #2 on: January 12, 2022, 07:45:01 PM »
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    • Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich Prophecy on The Two Popes

    I saw also the relationship between the two popes. . . I saw how baleful (harmful) would be the consequences of this false church. I saw it increase in size; heretics of every kind came into the city (of Rome). The local clergy grew lukewarm, and I saw a great darkness
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #3 on: January 12, 2022, 08:37:24 PM »
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    • Trying to figure out all this mess --- I cannot go "the full monty" of sedevacantism just yet, my father, requiescat in pace, wasn't so demure about matters --- I am toying with this notion.  It has a certain internal logic, and would explain how we can have a man on the papal throne, saying the things Francis says, doing the things Francis does, yet not be in a state of sede vacante.  

    Time will tell.
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    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #4 on: January 12, 2022, 10:01:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on January 12, 2022, 08:37:24 PM
    Trying to figure out all this mess --- I cannot go "the full monty" of sedevacantism just yet, my father, requiescat in pace, wasn't so demure about matters --- I am toying with this notion.  It has a certain internal logic, and would explain how we can have a man on the papal throne, saying the things Francis says, doing the things Francis does, yet not be in a state of sede vacante. 

    Time will tell.
    If you make “not being a sede vacantist” your highest priority, you will never arrive at the truth.  A lot of the “bennyvacantists” are people who correctly understand that an idol-worshipping apostate cannot legitimately hold on to an ecclesiastical office but who are so fearful of being identified with sede vacantists that they have to ignore blatant heresy and apostasy in Ratzinger to assert that he is the true pope.  Worshipping in the Blue Mosque is just as much apostasy as worshipping pachamama.  So it will be interesting when Ratzinger dies to see how his followers react.  I’m a little skeptical that they will fall in line with sedes.  I think they will try to distinguish themselves somehow.  But how?
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #5 on: January 12, 2022, 10:53:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: Clemens Maria on January 12, 2022, 10:01:53 PM
    If you make “not being a sede vacantist” your highest priority, you will never arrive at the truth.  A lot of the “bennyvacantists” are people who correctly understand that an idol-worshipping apostate cannot legitimately hold on to an ecclesiastical office but who are so fearful of being identified with sede vacantists that they have to ignore blatant heresy and apostasy in Ratzinger to assert that he is the true pope.  Worshipping in the Blue Mosque is just as much apostasy as worshipping pachamama.  So it will be interesting when Ratzinger dies to see how his followers react.  I’m a little skeptical that they will fall in line with sedes.  I think they will try to distinguish themselves somehow.  But how?

    And I don't.  I don't know whether the see is vacant or not, though I settle the doubt (not without some unease) in favor of it not being vacant.  I could be wrong.  And I could be wrong if I took the position that it is vacant.  I would have "unease" either way.  As a practical matter, I don't let it make a whole lot of difference.  I go with tradition.  God cannot change, and the truth cannot change.
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    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #6 on: January 12, 2022, 10:55:09 PM »
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    • This is where the prophesy of the white pope and black pope dying at the same time comes in. There's no way we can fully sort that mess while it's still a feature of Divine Punishment. We won't have to sort that out, it will end with the other evils and punishments of the fifth age. There will probably be some kind a winnowing of the clergy that goes along with it. Probably like the spiritual warning were people can see the state of their soul, or all the false ones will die and all the ones that live will be scared straight.

    Somebody is going to have to attempt to consecrate Russia before the chastisement hits, even in the middle of the war perhaps. The one who tries will be (or become in the act?) the real pope. I'm guessing that will be Ben, whatever his status now.

    Then again, there's still the vision of Don Bosco. Not sure how it fits in the timeline.
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    Offline xavierpope

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #7 on: January 13, 2022, 04:20:23 AM »
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    • The night the white Pope and the black pope dies, is the dawn of the great restoration

    Blesswd Catherine talks about a prisoner pope who gets beaten in end times :'(
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    Online Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #8 on: January 13, 2022, 04:28:25 AM »
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    • Great restoration as in Holy Restoration?
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    Online Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #9 on: January 13, 2022, 04:30:32 AM »
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    • Don’t rely on Benedict. He took the jab and he doesn’t speak out for the true faith.  Archbishop Vigano talks and acts  like a Pope should. 

    I remember what my beloved late mother in law and brother in law tried to advise me:”The Church is not what it seems.  Go to Mass and come right home.

    Had it not been for the novus Ordo, I would have been a better Christian. Many of my own past sins started with novus Ordo. 





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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #10 on: January 13, 2022, 05:43:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on January 12, 2022, 08:37:24 PM
    Trying to figure out all this mess --- I cannot go "the full monty" of sedevacantism just yet, my father, requiescat in pace, wasn't so demure about matters --- I am toying with this notion.  It has a certain internal logic, and would explain how we can have a man on the papal throne, saying the things Francis says, doing the things Francis does, yet not be in a state of sede vacante. 

    Time will tell.
    Once you see that the ultimate goal and main purpose of sedeism is disunity, then you will see that you have no good reason to go the full monty.

    Don't get side tracked and lose site of what our religious obligations are, among them is to pray for him, he is in dire need of many, many prayers.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Church Militant

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #11 on: January 13, 2022, 06:55:33 AM »
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    • If Pope Benedict XVI dies, the cardinals will have to elect another pope.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #12 on: January 13, 2022, 07:11:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on January 13, 2022, 05:43:30 AM
    Once you see that the ultimate goal and main purpose of sedeism is disunity, then you will see that you have no good reason to go the full monty.
    Even though I don't believe Francis is Pope, I believe you are correct on this point. The current Sanborn v. Dolan spat is a good example of this. Or even the ongoing dogmatic non una cuм fiasco.

    That being said, if you think there is any more such unity being hitched to the Vatican, you are sorely mistaken. Otherwise there wouldn't be a Resistance to the SSPX. The sheer lack of unity on all traditionalist fronts is the biggest point in favor of there being no visible Head.
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #13 on: January 13, 2022, 07:34:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on January 13, 2022, 07:11:04 AM
    Even though I don't believe Francis is Pope, I believe you are correct on this point. The current Sanborn v. Dolan spat is a good example of this. Or even the ongoing dogmatic non una cuм fiasco.

    That being said, if you think there is any more such unity being hitched to the Vatican, you are sorely mistaken. Otherwise there wouldn't be a Resistance to the SSPX. The sheer lack of unity on all traditionalist fronts is the biggest point in favor of there being no visible Head.
    I do not really pay much attention to the current spat(s), I fall back on when a few priests, particularly +Sanborn, caused the split of our chapel with his sermons promoting sedeism back in the 70s, then ended up where he is now with his own chapel, school, seminary, convent etc,. What did it really accomplish - aside from disunity?
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: If Benedict is still Pope...
    « Reply #14 on: January 13, 2022, 07:42:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Church Militant on January 13, 2022, 06:55:33 AM
    If Pope Benedict XVI dies, the cardinals will have to elect another pope.

    But they won't.
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